1st Build Advice Please

Byte_da_chip wrote:
 > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
 > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
 > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:

I'm surprised it's still possible to spend more than $2000 on a
computer. $2238 and you only get a 17" monitor? And no operating
system? I sense some wrong thinking somewhere.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

Matt wrote:

 > Byte_da_chip wrote:
  > > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
  > > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
  > > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
 >
 > I'm surprised it's still possible to spend more than $2000 on a
 > computer. $2238 and you only get a 17" monitor? And no operating
 > system? I sense some wrong thinking somewhere.

So much for a 32 bit system is crazy. Paying $329 for a 32 bit cpu is
totally crazy. I have no idea why he wants to use very high priced
registered ECC ddr ram. He could go with an Athlon 64 3500+
for around $330, then use a $75 512 meg stick of PC3200 ddr ram.
That is $175 saved right there. Around $100 of that could go towards
choosing a 19" lcd monitor instead of a 17" one. I don't know why
he chose such a high priced video card. It seems a bit much, even
for a gamer. He didn't include the price of an OS.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

"Byte_da_chip" <bert.RemoveThis@techie.com> wrote in message
news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
 > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
 > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
 > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
 >
 >
 > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
 >
 > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
 >
 > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
 > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
 >
 > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
 >
 > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
 > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
 >
 > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
 > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
 >
 > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
 > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
 >
 > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
 > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
 >
 > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
 >
 > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
 > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
 >
 > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
 > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
 >
 > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
 >
 > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
 > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
 >
 > _______
 >
 > $2238.74
 >
 > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
 > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
 > appreciated!

OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can shave a
hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance wise. Get
a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half speed (QUIET),
that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no, that's not a
typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast, quieter, and
forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant. Now you're
only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed ANYTHING at all.
Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you buy it
separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!? Shit, you could
probably find something high quality that looks great for half that, and
then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.

If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive. (when was
the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really good high-end
865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and they hold
their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really need ECC
RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try to find a
mainboard that doesn't require that.

Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build for under
$1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

I think you're overspending for what you've got there.
I can do better for 1500 or less. CPU, memory,
video card, monitor, power supply all seem overpriced
to me. A 17in LCD coupled with a $468 vid card is a
mismatch. For gaming, I wouldn't buy a LCD, especially one
under 19inch. Once you've used a 19 there is no going
back. When you can get a great 19inch NEC apperture
grille CRT for under 250, why spend 400 for a 17inch LCD?

Generally, the latest and greatest often isn't the greatest,
because the latest is often the buggiest. This is true for hardware
just like it is for software. That's why it's often wiser to buy more
mature models, not always, but that's the case more often than not.

Since it's your first build, I think you're going to
realize that doing it right is more complicated than
you may have imagined. Configuring everything
just right is not easy, there are tons of minor
issues that can come up. So besides buying right, you need
to spend time researching about potential problems and issues, such
as install orders, bigLBA issues, BIOS settings, troubleshooting
techniques etc. Buying and building right is not as easy as some
people make out. I usually like to pay a visit to the manufacturer's support
site, check some forums, Intel and MS support sites, and various online
reviews on www, besides newsgroups.





"Byte_da_chip" <bert RemoveThis @techie.com> wrote in message
news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
 > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
 > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
 > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
 >
 >
 > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
 >
 > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
 >
 > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
 > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
 >
 > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
 >
 > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
 > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
 >
 > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
 > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
 >
 > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
 > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
 >
 > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
 > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
 >
 > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
 >
 > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
 > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
 >
 > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
 > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
 >
 > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
 >
 > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
 > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
 >
 > _______
 >
 > $2238.74
 >
 > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
 > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
 > appreciated!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

"Raymond" <StopSpam.TakeThisOut@Now.net> wrote in message
news:Esl3d.4408$vd1.3286@trnddc03...
 >
 > I think you're overspending for what you've got there.
 > I can do better for 1500 or less. CPU, memory,
 > video card, monitor, power supply all seem overpriced
 > to me. A 17in LCD coupled with a $468 vid card is a
 > mismatch. For gaming, I wouldn't buy a LCD, especially one
 > under 19inch. Once you've used a 19 there is no going
 > back.

I disagree. Early LCD monitors suffered from ghosting, but he shouldn't
have that problem with any current LCD monitor, unless he really cheaps out
on it. A decent name-brand 17" LCD is going to be as large as a 19" CRT, as
far as viewing area goes. My nephew is an avid gamer. He loves playing
high-speed action games on NEC brand LCD monitors including my LCD1760V and
his own LCD1565. Note that's a 15" LCD monitor, and it is a kick-butt
gaming monitor. The image quality BLOWS AWAY anything that uses a CRT, and
it has no ghosting at all. Any mid-range 17" LCD should be just as good (if
not better) for gaming now than any 19" CRT. It costs more, but it frees up
gobs of desk space, also. -Dave<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

Ghosting is not the only issue with LCDs, there
are issues with angle of view, brightness,
resolutions dependencies, and others. It's
time has not come, not for me anyway.

"Dave C." <mdupre.RemoveThis@sff.net> wrote in message news:2r68kfF15p1gjU1@uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "Raymond" <StopSpam.RemoveThis@Now.net> wrote in message
 > news:Esl3d.4408$vd1.3286@trnddc03...
  > >
  > > I think you're overspending for what you've got there.
  > > I can do better for 1500 or less. CPU, memory,
  > > video card, monitor, power supply all seem overpriced
  > > to me. A 17in LCD coupled with a $468 vid card is a
  > > mismatch. For gaming, I wouldn't buy a LCD, especially one
  > > under 19inch. Once you've used a 19 there is no going
  > > back.
 >
 > I disagree. Early LCD monitors suffered from ghosting, but he shouldn't
 > have that problem with any current LCD monitor, unless he really cheaps out
 > on it. A decent name-brand 17" LCD is going to be as large as a 19" CRT, as
 > far as viewing area goes. My nephew is an avid gamer. He loves playing
 > high-speed action games on NEC brand LCD monitors including my LCD1760V and
 > his own LCD1565. Note that's a 15" LCD monitor, and it is a kick-butt
 > gaming monitor. The image quality BLOWS AWAY anything that uses a CRT, and
 > it has no ghosting at all. Any mid-range 17" LCD should be just as good (if
 > not better) for gaming now than any 19" CRT. It costs more, but it frees up
 > gobs of desk space, also. -Dave
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

"Dave C." <mdupre RemoveThis @sff.net> wrote in message news:<2r66u3F161q02U1 RemoveThis @uni-berlin.de>...
 > "Byte_da_chip" <bert RemoveThis @techie.com> wrote in message
 > news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
  > > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
  > > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
  > > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
  > >
  > >
  > > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
  > >
  > > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
  > >
  > > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
  > > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
  > >
  > > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
  > >
  > > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
  > > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
  > >
  > > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
  > > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
  > >
  > > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
  > > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
  > >
  > > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
  > > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
  > >
  > > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
  > >
  > > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
  > > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
  > >
  > > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
  > > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
  > >
  > > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
  > >
  > > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
  > > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
  > >
  > > _______
  > >
  > > $2238.74
  > >
  > > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
  > > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
  > > appreciated!
 >
 > OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can shave a
 > hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance wise. Get
 > a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half speed (QUIET),
 > that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no, that's not a
 > typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast, quieter, and
 > forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant. Now you're
 > only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed ANYTHING at all.
 > Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you buy it
 > separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!? Shit, you could
 > probably find something high quality that looks great for half that, and
 > then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.
 >
 > If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive. (when was
 > the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really good high-end
 > 865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and they hold
 > their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really need ECC
 > RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try to find a
 > mainboard that doesn't require that.
 >
 > Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build for under
 > $1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave

Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
the first time. One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good advice.
Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
Thanks a million!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

amd'rs this whole setup is ridiculous................

I would rather have a p4 2.8 with a 22" LCD/CRT 2 gigs ram 200+gig
storage with an all -in- wonder card of some kind (because that's what
would benefit me), than that planned system for that money.

First off---- WHAT THE HECK are you gong to use it for? No one here
could possibly give you any GOOD advice unless you tell us that. Your
planned system could have some use in certain scenarios...like
bragging allot, as you chat on AOL, but then you could do that on a
PII 333, and just say you have whatever you want and save yourself
1900 dollars.


"Byte_da_chip" <bert.TakeThisOut@techie.com> wrote in message
news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
 > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and
all
 > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can
see,
 > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
 >
 >
 > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
 >
 > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
 >
 > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
 > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
 >
 > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
 >
 > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
 > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
 >
 > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
 > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
 >
 > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
 > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
 >
 > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
 > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
 >
 > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
 >
 > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
 > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
 >
 > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
 > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
 >
 > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
 >
 > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
 > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
 >
 > _______
 >
 > $2238.74
 >
 > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
 > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
 > appreciated!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

Do you plan to play Doom 3? If so, I suggest that you look at this.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7" target="_blank">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7</a>

Byte_da_chip wrote:

 > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
 > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
 > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
 >
 > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
 >
 > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
 >
 > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
 > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
 >
 > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
 >
 > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
 > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
 >
 > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
 > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
 >
 > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
 > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
 >
 > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
 > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
 >
 > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
 >
 > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
 > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
 >
 > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
 > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
 >
 > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
 >
 > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
 > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
 >
 > _______
 >
 > $2238.74
 >
 > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
 > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
 > appreciated!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

Byte_da_chip wrote:

 > "Dave C." <mdupre.TakeThisOut@sff.net> wrote in message news:<2r66u3F161q02U1.TakeThisOut@uni-berlin.de>...
  > > "Byte_da_chip" <bert.TakeThisOut@techie.com> wrote in message
  > > news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
   > > > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
   > > > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
   > > > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
   > > >
   > > > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
   > > >
   > > > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
   > > > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
   > > >
   > > > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
   > > >
   > > > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
   > > > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
   > > >
   > > > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
   > > > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
   > > >
   > > > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
   > > > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
   > > >
   > > > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
   > > > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
   > > >
   > > > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
   > > >
   > > > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
   > > > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
   > > >
   > > > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
   > > > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
   > > >
   > > > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
   > > >
   > > > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
   > > > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
   > > >
   > > > _______
   > > >
   > > > $2238.74
   > > >
   > > > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
   > > > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
   > > > appreciated!
  > >
  > > OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can shave a
  > > hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance wise. Get
  > > a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half speed (QUIET),
  > > that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no, that's not a
  > > typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast, quieter, and
  > > forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant. Now you're
  > > only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed ANYTHING at all.
  > > Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you buy it
  > > separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!? Shit, you could
  > > probably find something high quality that looks great for half that, and
  > > then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.
  > >
  > > If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive. (when was
  > > the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really good high-end
  > > 865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and they hold
  > > their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really need ECC
  > > RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try to find a
  > > mainboard that doesn't require that.
  > >
  > > Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build for under
  > > $1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave
 >
 > Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
 > the first time.

In that case you don't want a 32 bit processor. An athlon 64 3000+
is only around $150. It is great for running 32 bit software,

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1" target="_blank">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1</a>

and will allow you to upgrade to 64 bit software and/or run 32 bit software
at the same time. The Athlon 64 processors are superb for games,
especially Doom 3.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7" target="_blank">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7</a>

A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ beats an $820 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE
running Doom 3.

 > One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
 > big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good advice.
 > Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
 > Thanks a million!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

21 Sep 2004, 12:52pm ET

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Keep up the good work how much is your commission?

"JK" <JK9821 DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote in message
news:41505D47.23C77D7F@netscape.net...
 >
 >
 > Byte_da_chip wrote:
 >
  > > "Dave C." <mdupre DeleteThis @sff.net> wrote in message
news:<2r66u3F161q02U1 DeleteThis @uni-berlin.de>...
   > > > "Byte_da_chip" <bert DeleteThis @techie.com> wrote in message
   > > > news:139c120.0409190331.28b819d2@posting.google.com...
   > > > > I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any
and all
   > > > > advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you
can see,
   > > > > I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative
plans:
   > > > >
   > > > >
   > > > > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00
   > > > >
   > > > > ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00
   > > > >
   > > > > CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
   > > > > CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00
   > > > >
   > > > > HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00
   > > > >
   > > > > Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
   > > > > L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99
   > > > >
   > > > > ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
   > > > > DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00
   > > > >
   > > > > ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
   > > > > CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00
   > > > >
   > > > > Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
   > > > > Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50
   > > > >
   > > > > I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00
   > > > >
   > > > > SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
   > > > > Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00
   > > > >
   > > > > IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model
CR
   > > > > I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75
   > > > >
   > > > > Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00
   > > > >
   > > > > Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
   > > > > Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00
   > > > >
   > > > > _______
   > > > >
   > > > > $2238.74
   > > > >
   > > > > Any advice on better hardware in the same price range,
compatability
   > > > > issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
   > > > > appreciated!
   > > >
   > > > OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can
shave a
   > > > hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance
wise. Get
   > > > a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half
speed (QUIET),
   > > > that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no,
that's not a
   > > > typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast,
quieter, and
   > > > forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant.
Now you're
   > > > only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed
ANYTHING at all.
   > > > Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you
buy it
   > > > separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!?
Shit, you could
   > > > probably find something high quality that looks great for half
that, and
   > > > then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.
   > > >
   > > > If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive.
(when was
   > > > the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really
good high-end
   > > > 865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and
they hold
   > > > their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really
need ECC
   > > > RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try
to find a
   > > > mainboard that doesn't require that.
   > > >
   > > > Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build
for under
   > > > $1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave
  > >
  > > Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this
right
  > > the first time.
 >
 > In that case you don't want a 32 bit processor. An athlon 64 3000+
 > is only around $150. It is great for running 32 bit software,
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1</font" target="_blank">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1</font</a>>
 >
 > and will allow you to upgrade to 64 bit software and/or run 32 bit
software
 > at the same time. The Athlon 64 processors are superb for games,
 > especially Doom 3.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7</font" target="_blank">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7</font</a>>
 >
 > A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ beats an $820 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE
 > running Doom 3.
 >
  > > One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
  > > big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good
advice.
  > > Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
  > > Thanks a million!
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

 >
 > Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
 > the first time. One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
 > big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good advice.
 > Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
 > Thanks a million!

There's nothing wrong with using ECC RAM, other than ECC RAM is usually more
expensive. You don't need ECC unless you are going to be running some kind
of mission-critical server that has to be up 24/7 with no on-site support.
Even then, you could get by OK without it, as long as you don't skimp on
whatever RAM you buy. If it's stability and speed you are after, you don't
need ECC to achieve that. -Dave<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please 

OK, I am totally fucking FED UP with all these morons insisting that AMD is
faster and cheaper than Intel, PERIOD. I am a HUGE AMD fan. So it's
incredibly ironic that I should feel compelled to defend Intel against
repetitive, undeserved LIES posted on this ng and others about how AMD chips
are both faster AND cheaper than Intel chips. At any particular point in
time, that might be true, but it hasn't been true for quite a while, and it
isn't true NOW. For anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass, or an
axe to grind, and wants to know the plain, simple truth, here it is:

According to pricewatch, same price range at the moment would be:

P4 3.2 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3200+ or

P4 3.4 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3400+

Beyond that range, you can pay up to several hundred dollars for either an
Intel or AMD chip, but hardly anybody gives a damn about those chips, as
hardly anybody spends as much on a processor as they do on the entire rest
of their system combined.

So the P4 3.2/3.4 and Athlon64 3200/3400 would be the best indicators of who
has the best bang for buck, at the moment.

Gaming: OpenGL: The Intel chips are much faster
Gaming: DX8: The AMD chips are faster, no doubt about it
Gaming: DX9: It's virtually a tie, as the AMD chips are two to three
TENTHS of a percentage point faster than Intel.
So on the gaming benchmarks, that's one win for Intel, one win for AMD and
one tie.
GAMING OVERALL: TIED

Business Applications: Office Applications: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Internet Content Creation: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Overall: Intel blows AMD away

Video Encoding: This one is so lopsided, AMD should have thrown in the
towel before entering the ring. Intel wins by a landslide.

Audio Encoding: Again, Intel wins by a landslide

Synthetic Benchmarks: (PC Mark 2004): Here, Intel blows AMD away on both
*CPU* and memory benchmarks

Actually, I'm glad you called me out on this issue. I was previously under
the impression that AMD and Intel were pretty well matched. But on
reviewing the benchmarks again, I'd have to conclude that AMD is only a good
idea if you plan to do nothing but DX8 gaming with your computer.
Otherwise, you are wasting your money buying an AMD chip.

Again, even at the same price for CPU, an Intel system can be cheaper to
build, as the P4 boards are more mature at this point, and thus there are
better bargains to be found. Considering that an Intel system will likely
be cheaper to build and WILL perform better on all benchmarks except DX8,
it's kind of a no-brainer as to which chip to build with, at the moment.

Intel is better than AMD, at the moment. The only way AMD could change that
would be to drop their prices by 30% or better. -Dave 9/20/04

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040322/index.html

The following is an article on the Athlon 64 2800+. But more interesting
is,
the benchmarks included in the article are a GREAT comparison of the 3.2GHz
P4
processors with the Athlon64 3200+. In this article, these two processors
are
pretty evenly matched, with Intel being faster on some benchmarks, and AMD
being faster on others.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2038&p=1

Now lets look at what Sharky Extreme has to report in their article about
the
3.4GHz Prescott processor. This one has benchmarks that are a great
comparison
of the 3.4GHz Intel chips with the Athlon64 3400+. Here, you have to be
careful,
as Sharky doesn't organize their charts in order of fastest to slowest. And
on
some charts, LOWER scores are better. But if you read all the benchmarks,
you
will again notice that the two chips are pretty evenly matched, with AMD
faster
on some and Intel faster on others.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_3329681__1
 >> Stay informed about: 1st Build Advice Please