2800XP V's 2500XP

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:20:49 GMT
"Wes Newell" <w.newell.DeleteThis@SOSverizon.net> wrote:

 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
 >=20
  > > Is it worth spending the extra =A360 for the higher speed processor(
  > > both Barton Cores)
 >=20
 > Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton
 > cores. IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
 > Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max
 > compared to the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire
 > pressure, when inflating it to the max would be the same as the first?
 > Basically, that is your question.

Not quite. Would you pay extra for a tire that was guaranteed to take
full inflation pressure vs one that is guaranteed only to take 10 psi
less than full inflation pressure? Or would you save a buck and pray
that the cheap tire was merely mismarked rather than being actually
unable to take the pressure?

The situations are not analogous for a number of reasons, one of the
major ones being that the worst that a failed processor does is become
an annoyance while a failed tire can kill you and your family, and
another being that tires that won't take full pressure are generally
destroyed rather than being sold as seconds. If you want to use tires,
then a better analogy would be a tire rated for 100 MPH being used at
150 MPH.

While all Bartons may be the same design and made in the same facility,
that does not mean that all will run at the same clock speed. And the
fact that you haven't personally encountered one that doesn't is not
relevant to the general statement. Personally I've never met a
sub-Saharan African with AIDS but that doesn't mean that they don't
exist in large numbers.

 > --=20
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>


--=20
--=20
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:29:27 GMT
"SM" <sm DeleteThis @nomail.net> wrote:

 >=20
 > "Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @SOSverizon.net> wrote in message
 > news:pan.2003.08.24.15.21.11.345441@SOSverizon.net...
  > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
  > >
   > > > Is it worth spending the extra =A360 for the higher speed processor(
   > > > both Barton Cores)
  > >
  > > Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton
  > > cores. IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
  > > Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max
  > > compared to the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire
  > > pressure, when inflating it to the max would be the same as the
  > > first? Basically, that is your question.
  > >
  > > --=20
  > > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>
 >=20
 > OT
 > go to tire tread NG????
 >=20
 > So tell me if I'm wrong
 > 1.You would buy the 2500
 > 2.your tire pressure is low
 > 3.why pay over-inflated??? prices for basically the same core

Actually, the question is whether (a) you need to run at the higher
speed and (b) the (small) risk that the processor will either fail or
perform erratically at the higher speed is acceptable to you. If you're
designing bridges or monitoring life support systems then taking the
risk is probably not a good idea. If you're playing SIMS then it's
probably acceptable. That's a decision you have to make.

Unlike Wes, I don't believe in overclocking everything in sight. There
are times when it is appropriate and others when it is not.
=20
 > Thanks
 >=20
 > SM
 >=20
 >=20


--=20
--=20
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:

 > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor( both
 > Barton Cores)

Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton cores.
IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max compared to
the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire pressure, when
inflating it to the max would be the same as the first? Basically, that is
your question.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

"Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @SOSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.08.24.15.21.11.345441@SOSverizon.net...
 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
 >
  > > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor( both
  > > Barton Cores)
 >
 > Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton cores.
 > IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
 > Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max compared to
 > the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire pressure, when
 > inflating it to the max would be the same as the first? Basically, that is
 > your question.
 >
 > --
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>

OT
go to tire tread NG????

So tell me if I'm wrong
1.You would buy the 2500
2.your tire pressure is low
3.why pay over-inflated??? prices for basically the same core

Thanks

SM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

"Too_Much_Coffee ®" <looking.RemoveThis@the.girls> wrote in message
news:xJKdnb5mLuV1fNWiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
 >
 > "SM" <sm.RemoveThis@nomail.net> wrote in message
 > news:O722b.3077$Zv2.28355737@news-text.cableinet.net...
  > > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor( both
  > > Barton Cores)
  > > I will be OC on a new DFI Lanparty NFII Ultra,
  > >
  > > is the 2500 more flexible?
 >
 > I got the 2500+ Barton and overclocked it a little. I changed the FSB from
 > 166.6 to 200MHz and left the multiplier where it was at 11.0. I increased
 > the core voltage to 1.7v. It is only a couple of degrees centigrade
hotter
 > at 2.2GHz than it was at 1.83GHz. I now have a 3200+ for $88US instead of
 > close to $500.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/ku2b</font" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ku2b</font</a>>
 >
 > BTW, if your mobo won't handle 200MHz, you can just increase the
multiplier
 > from 11 to 12.5 to get the 2800+.
 >
 > There are quite a few threads on which Barton to choose in the
 > overclocking.amd newsgroup.
 >
 >
 > Too_Much_Coffee ®
 >
  > >
  > > Any help & Advice wiil be greatly appreciated
  > >
  > > SM
  > >
  > >
 >
 >
 >
 >

Mine is @ 12.5X215... get the 2500xp...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

"John Theriault" <johnspam.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%r62b.12820$_V.8931@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 >
 > "Too_Much_Coffee ®" <looking.RemoveThis@the.girls> wrote in message
 > news:xJKdnb5mLuV1fNWiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
  > >
  > > "SM" <sm.RemoveThis@nomail.net> wrote in message
  > > news:O722b.3077$Zv2.28355737@news-text.cableinet.net...
   > > > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor(
both
   > > > Barton Cores)
   > > > I will be OC on a new DFI Lanparty NFII Ultra,
   > > >
   > > > is the 2500 more flexible?
  > >
  > > I got the 2500+ Barton and overclocked it a little. I changed the FSB
from
  > > 166.6 to 200MHz and left the multiplier where it was at 11.0. I
increased
  > > the core voltage to 1.7v. It is only a couple of degrees centigrade
 > hotter
  > > at 2.2GHz than it was at 1.83GHz. I now have a 3200+ for $88US instead
of
  > > close to $500.
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/ku2b</font" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ku2b</font</a>>
  > >
  > > BTW, if your mobo won't handle 200MHz, you can just increase the
 > multiplier
  > > from 11 to 12.5 to get the 2800+.
  > >
  > > There are quite a few threads on which Barton to choose in the
  > > overclocking.amd newsgroup.
  > >
  > >
  > > Too_Much_Coffee ®
  > >
   > > >
   > > > Any help & Advice wiil be greatly appreciated
   > > >
   > > > SM
   > > >
   > > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Mine is @ 12.5X215... get the 2500xp...

Post a CPU-Z or WCPUID image somewhere so we can see it.


 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:43:40 GMT
"Wes Newell" <w.newell RemoveThis @SOSverizon.net> wrote:

 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:49:47 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:
 >=20
  > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:20:49 GMT
  > > "Wes Newell" <w.newell RemoveThis @SOSverizon.net> wrote:
  > >=20
   > >> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
   > >>=20
   > >> > Is it worth spending the extra =A360 for the higher speed
  > >processor(> > both Barton Cores)
   > >>=20
   > >> Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton
   > >> cores. IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
   > >> Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max
   > >> compared to the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire
   > >> pressure, when inflating it to the max would be the same as the
  > >first?> Basically, that is your question.
  > >=20
  > > Not quite. Would you pay extra for a tire that was guaranteed to
  > > take full inflation pressure vs one that is guaranteed only to take
  > > 10 psi less than full inflation pressure? Or would you save a buck
  > > and pray that the cheap tire was merely mismarked rather than being
  > > actually unable to take the pressure?
  > >=20
 > The tires were the same. That means same brand and model. Only one was
 > completely aired up. Note "same tire" above. Your response makes no
 > sense.=20

Wrong. 2800XP is not the "same model" as 2500XP.

  > > While all Bartons may be the same design and made in the same
  > > facility, that does not mean that all will run at the same clock
  > > speed. And the
 >=20
 > That's true, some rated at slower clock speeds will actually run
 > faster than some rated at higher clock speeds. Proven fact.

And some rated at lower clock speeds won't run any faster than the rated
clock speed.

  > > fact that you haven't personally encountered one that doesn't is not
  > > relevant to the general statement. Personally I've never met a
  > > sub-Saharan African with AIDS but that doesn't mean that they don't
  > > exist in large numbers.
  > >=20
 > I think you're getting a little carried away John.

No, Wes, I'm not getting carried away. Anyone who has had any real
engineering experience knows that designing a system so that a component
is running out of spec is eventually going to bite you in the ass. And
that is exactly what you are doing any time you overclock.

You have some good advice for people, but your continued insistence that
every processor in the world is going to work the same way that the few
that you have personally encountered work is doing no service to
anybody.

 > --=20
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)

When you have a thousand of those all running the same way reliably,
with no rejects, then maybe I'll be impressed.

<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>


--=20
--=20
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:57:19 GMT
"Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @SOSverizon.net> wrote:

 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:54:18 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:
 >
  > > Unlike Wes, I don't believe in overclocking everything in sight.
  > > There are times when it is appropriate and others when it is not.
  > >
 > I don't even consider it overclocking until I go over the speed that
 > the manufacturer sells the core at.

I see. So you just willy-nilly assume that every processor of a given
design is going to perform exactly the same way as every other processor
of that design. I have mixed emotions about my wishes for you in this
regard--on the one hand I hope you continue to get away with this, on
the other hand it will serve you right if the time you get audited is
the time that the arithmetic functions on your overclocked processor are
off just enough to get you nailed with a half a million dollar fine.

There is something called a "manufacturing tolerance" with which you
might wish to familiarize yourself.

 > For the Barton, that's 2200MHz.
 > For the Tbred, it's arguably 2250MHz. While I may overclock for
 > testing purposes, I've never run the Tbred over 2200MHz for sustained
 > operation. I leave my system on 24.7, rain sleet, hail, and even
 > through a tornado. As of late, I'm actually running it uber 2 gig. i
 > don't need the speed and it conserves energy, both in use and having
 > to use more AC to cool it. I've also probably underclocked many more
 > systems than I've overclocked. Building VM system that run 24/7 in
 > really bad environments will make one tend to do that if they don't
 > want system failures.
 >
 > --
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:57:19 GMT
"Wes Newell" <w.newell.RemoveThis@SOSverizon.net> wrote:

 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:54:18 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:
 >
  > > Unlike Wes, I don't believe in overclocking everything in sight.
  > > There are times when it is appropriate and others when it is not.
  > >
 > I don't even consider it overclocking until I go over the speed that
 > the manufacturer sells the core at. For the Barton, that's 2200MHz.
 > For the Tbred, it's arguably 2250MHz. While I may overclock for
 > testing purposes, I've never run the Tbred over 2200MHz for sustained
 > operation. I leave my system on 24.7, rain sleet, hail, and even
 > through a tornado. As of late, I'm actually running it uber 2 gig. i
 > don't need the speed and it conserves energy, both in use and having
 > to use more AC to cool it. I've also probably underclocked many more
 > systems than I've overclocked. Building VM system that run 24/7 in
 > really bad environments will make one tend to do that if they don't
 > want system failures.

I have a question for you. Would you trust your life to that "Tbred B
core CPU @2400 MHz"? How about your wife's life? How about your kid's
life? How about the lives of 300 passengers?
 >
 > --
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:49:47 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:

 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:20:49 GMT
 > "Wes Newell" <w.newell.RemoveThis@SOSverizon.net> wrote:
 >
  >> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
  >>
   >> > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor(
   >> > both Barton Cores)
  >>
  >> Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton
  >> cores. IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
  >> Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max
  >> compared to the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire
  >> pressure, when inflating it to the max would be the same as the first?
  >> Basically, that is your question.
 >
 > Not quite. Would you pay extra for a tire that was guaranteed to take
 > full inflation pressure vs one that is guaranteed only to take 10 psi
 > less than full inflation pressure? Or would you save a buck and pray
 > that the cheap tire was merely mismarked rather than being actually
 > unable to take the pressure?
 >
The tires were the same. That means same brand and model. Only one was
completely aired up. Note "same tire" above. Your response makes no
sense.

 > While all Bartons may be the same design and made in the same facility,
 > that does not mean that all will run at the same clock speed. And the

That's true, some rated at slower clock speeds will actually run faster
than some rated at higher clock speeds. Proven fact.

 > fact that you haven't personally encountered one that doesn't is not
 > relevant to the general statement. Personally I've never met a
 > sub-Saharan African with AIDS but that doesn't mean that they don't
 > exist in large numbers.
 >
I think you're getting a little carried away John.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:29:27 +0000, SM wrote:

 >
 > "Wes Newell" <w.newell.TakeThisOut@SOSverizon.net> wrote in message
 > news:pan.2003.08.24.15.21.11.345441@SOSverizon.net...
  >> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
  >>
   >> > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor( both
   >> > Barton Cores)
  >>
  >> Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton cores.
  >> IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
  >> Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max compared to
  >> the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire pressure, when
  >> inflating it to the max would be the same as the first? Basically, that is
  >> your question.
  >>
  >> --
  >> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>>
 >
 > OT
 > go to tire tread NG????
 >
 > So tell me if I'm wrong
 > 1.You would buy the 2500

That's correct.

 > 2.your tire pressure is low

Probably. I haven't driven my car in a few weeks.

 > 3.why pay over-inflated??? prices for basically the same core
 >
Exactly.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:54:18 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:

 > Unlike Wes, I don't believe in overclocking everything in sight. There
 > are times when it is appropriate and others when it is not.
 >
I don't even consider it overclocking until I go over the speed that the
manufacturer sells the core at. For the Barton, that's 2200MHz. For the
Tbred, it's arguably 2250MHz. While I may overclock for testing purposes,
I've never run the Tbred over 2200MHz for sustained operation. I leave my
system on 24.7, rain sleet, hail, and even through a tornado. As of late,
I'm actually running it uber 2 gig. i don't need the speed and it
conserves energy, both in use and having to use more AC to cool it. I've
also probably underclocked many more systems than I've overclocked.
Building VM system that run 24/7 in really bad environments will make one
tend to do that if they don't want system failures.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP 

His response makes a lot of sense. No two tires are the same. The same
applies to CPUs. There is no guarantee that you'll get the 2500 to run @
2800 speeds. I'm not sure if AMD does the same testing which Intel used to
do. Intel would take processors to see if they passed a set number of
tests. If the processor fails, they tested the same processor with lower
settings ... and so on. Now if you know that AMD ran only one set of tests
and marked the processor speeds randomly, you would be correct. Does anyone
know how the testing is done?

-------------------------
Politicians are used car salesmen who have the public speaking gene
"Wes Newell" <w.newell.DeleteThis@SOSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.08.25.01.43.59.714458@SOSverizon.net...
 > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:49:47 +0000, J.Clarke wrote:
 >
  > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:20:49 GMT
  > > "Wes Newell" <w.newell.DeleteThis@SOSverizon.net> wrote:
  > >
   > >> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:24:14 +0000, SM wrote:
   > >>
   > >> > Is it worth spending the extra £60 for the higher speed processor(
   > >> > both Barton Cores)
   > >>
   > >> Of course not. The answer is in your question. They are both Barton
   > >> cores. IOW's, they are the same cpu, just with different defaults.
   > >> Would you pay 50% more for a tire that was inflated to the max
   > >> compared to the same tire that was inflated to the minimum tire
   > >> pressure, when inflating it to the max would be the same as the first?
   > >> Basically, that is your question.
  > >
  > > Not quite. Would you pay extra for a tire that was guaranteed to take
  > > full inflation pressure vs one that is guaranteed only to take 10 psi
  > > less than full inflation pressure? Or would you save a buck and pray
  > > that the cheap tire was merely mismarked rather than being actually
  > > unable to take the pressure?
  > >
 > The tires were the same. That means same brand and model. Only one was
 > completely aired up. Note "same tire" above. Your response makes no
 > sense.
 >
  > > While all Bartons may be the same design and made in the same facility,
  > > that does not mean that all will run at the same clock speed. And the
 >
 > That's true, some rated at slower clock speeds will actually run faster
 > than some rated at higher clock speeds. Proven fact.
 >
  > > fact that you haven't personally encountered one that doesn't is not
  > > relevant to the general statement. Personally I've never met a
  > > sub-Saharan African with AIDS but that doesn't mean that they don't
  > > exist in large numbers.
  > >
 > I think you're getting a little carried away John.
 >
 > --
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2800XP V's 2500XP