ASROCK versus ASUS

ElJerid wrote:
 > "Piotr Makley" <pmakley.DeleteThis@mail.com> wrote in message
 > news:94C1DFDD4495D31E75@130.133.1.4...
 >
  >>Asrock and Asus motherboards are both made by Asustek. So what is
  >>the main difference between them?
  >>
  >>I am told that Asrock is a cheaper range so is one range positoned
  >>to be cheap and the other to be more expensive but with more
  >>features? Or do both ranges aim at broadly the same market but one
  >>is built better than the other?
  >>
 >
 >
 > I've seen somewhere that Asrock was a Chinese daughter company of Astek
 > intended to allow Asus to compete with companies like Elite eo in the
 > motherboard entry market. So recently I decided to purchase my first Asrock
 > P4VT8, where the box mentioned plenty of nice features, all at a very nice
 > price.
 > When installing however, I discovered a lot of "anomalies". Some examples:
 > - the board has 2 SATA connectors, but drivers have to be loaded from
 > diskettes at initial setup in order to recognize SATA drives;

That's about the OS, not the mobo

 > - when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board USB
 > connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with leds
 > always on;

That's normal. Same with PS/2 ports. ATX always has some power going to
the ports.

 > - the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);

The board doesn't crash, windows does.

 > - the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is mostly at
 > 72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.

Where did you get those readings?

 > - there is no dual channel DDR available (but I must say dual-channel is not
 > mentioned on the box);

You don't know your chipsets.

 > - installation of windows 2000 worked normally, but install of Win XP was
 > totally impossible (Win setup freezes early, at "press F6 to load additional
 > disk drivers").

This is a windows issue, not a mobo issue.

 > This could have been an isolated single bad experience, but I did some
 > search on the net and encountered a lot of idenditical or similar
 > experiences.

Because there are a lot of similarly inexperienced people who know just
enough to get themselves stuck.

 > I always loved Asus and installed many of those boards for P3 and P4 without
 > any problem. My first trial with Asrock was a total failure and I even
 > couldn' t get valuable support. I soon replaced the P4VT8 by an Asus P4P800
 > (price difference is not that big), and all problems above disappeared.
 > This was my first and last Asrock !!!

ASUS certainly make good boards. I like ASUS and Gigabyte. Had a board
die just inside of warranty, took it to the distributor, got a new board
a couple of weeks later that was better than the one I had. So, my wife
got an upgrade for the price of a few sticks of ram and a bottom of the
range CPU. I'd certainly consider giving Asrock a try if it met my needs
and price was important.



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 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

  > > I've seen somewhere that Asrock was a Chinese daughter company of Astek
  > > intended to allow Asus to compete with companies like Elite eo in the
  > > motherboard entry market. So recently I decided to purchase my first
Asrock
  > > P4VT8, where the box mentioned plenty of nice features, all at a very
nice
  > > price.
  > > When installing however, I discovered a lot of "anomalies". Some
examples:
  > > - the board has 2 SATA connectors, but drivers have to be loaded from
  > > diskettes at initial setup in order to recognize SATA drives;
 >
 > That's about the OS, not the mobo

That's what I thought first, so I returned the Win XP CD to the dealer where
it was tested and appeared to install without problems. So I took it back
home and tried an install on 2 othersPC's without problems.

  > > - when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board
USB
  > > connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with
leds
  > > always on;
 >
 > That's normal. Same with PS/2 ports. ATX always has some power going to
 > the ports.

Right, but not at the point that the leds on a card reader remain on when
power is down.

  > > - the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);
 >
 > The board doesn't crash, windows does.

Also just after a clean install, and without any application installed or
running ???

  > > - the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is
mostly at
  > > 72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.
 >
 > Where did you get those readings?

As well from Sandra as from Aida 32

  > > - there is no dual channel DDR available (but I must say dual-channel is
not
  > > mentioned on the box);
 >
 > You don't know your chipsets.

Right. That's why I mentioned it was not on the box, but only an expectation
from me due to the fact that I always used i868 or i875.

  > > - installation of windows 2000 worked normally, but install of Win XP
was
  > > totally impossible (Win setup freezes early, at "press F6 to load
additional
  > > disk drivers").
 >
 > This is a windows issue, not a mobo issue.

Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8, or
the P4VT8 is defective !
 >
  > > This could have been an isolated single bad experience, but I did some
  > > search on the net and encountered a lot of idenditical or similar
  > > experiences.
 >
 > Because there are a lot of similarly inexperienced people who know just
 > enough to get themselves stuck.

Maybe, but there are many, all with analog problems. And although not an
"expert", I'm not "inexperienced", as I installed more than 100 individual
PC's (I mean not auto-installs through a network), mostly in sophisticated
video capture and editing configurations..<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

"K-Tel Ronco" <sameoldnonexistantip.RemoveThis@customerofplusnet.com.not> wrote:

 ><SNIP>
 >" I am told that Asrock is a cheaper range "

 >I have to agree with that. In a number of years of building The Asrock is
 >the only boards I Have ever had a failure on (and I have used some crap).
 >Not a catastrophic failure I may add, rear usb ports died. However I bought
 >it thinking it was a quality item. I forget the model, was one of these
 >maplin bundles that at the time seemed like a great deal.

Might be a common fault? The one I dealt with had exactly the same
fault and I've noticed a couple sold on eBay in the last few weeks
with the same problem.

--
 >iv< Paul >iv<<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

"ElJerid" <s.vanderhaeghen.nospam.RemoveThis@pandora.be> wrote:

 >When installing however, I discovered a lot of "anomalies". Some examples:
 >- the board has 2 SATA connectors, but drivers have to be loaded from
 >diskettes at initial setup in order to recognize SATA drives;

Normal. No current OSes have native SATA support so you need to
provide drivers during setup.

 >- when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board USB
 >connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with leds
 >always on;

Again, normal. Any port which supports HID devices or has wake
support will require power even while the machine is supposedly
switched off. Illumination of the LED is a function of the card
reader, not the motherboard.

 >- the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);

Possible you had a faulty board but that alone is inconclusive.

 >- the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is mostly at
 >72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.

Monitored how? If in the BIOS it might indicate a faulty board but if
you were using monitoring s/w it's more likely the software was at
fault.

--
 >iv< Paul >iv<<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

ElJerid wrote:
   >>>I've seen somewhere that Asrock was a Chinese daughter company of Astek
   >>>intended to allow Asus to compete with companies like Elite eo in the
   >>>motherboard entry market. So recently I decided to purchase my first
 >
 > Asrock
 >
   >>>P4VT8, where the box mentioned plenty of nice features, all at a very
 >
 > nice
 >
   >>>price.
   >>>When installing however, I discovered a lot of "anomalies". Some
 >
 > examples:
 >
   >>>- the board has 2 SATA connectors, but drivers have to be loaded from
   >>>diskettes at initial setup in order to recognize SATA drives;
  >>
  >>That's about the OS, not the mobo
 >
 >
 > That's what I thought first, so I returned the Win XP CD to the dealer where
 > it was tested and appeared to install without problems. So I took it back
 > home and tried an install on 2 othersPC's without problems.

*sigh*

It's not about the cd. And the hardware was not identical.

 >
 >
   >>>- when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board
 >
 > USB
 >
   >>>connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with
 >
 > leds
 >
   >>>always on;
  >>
  >>That's normal. Same with PS/2 ports. ATX always has some power going to
  >>the ports.
 >
 >
 > Right, but not at the point that the leds on a card reader remain on when
 > power is down.
 >
 >
   >>>- the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);
  >>
  >>The board doesn't crash, windows does.
 >
 >
 > Also just after a clean install, and without any application installed or
 > running ???

Yes. You need to learn:
1. about your hardware, and just about hardware in general
2. about software, and specifically OSes

 >
 >
   >>>- the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is
 >
 > mostly at
 >
   >>>72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.
  >>
  >>Where did you get those readings?
 >
 >
 > As well from Sandra as from Aida 32

Try the BIOS next time, but that should be identical. If not, you'll
discover why many people don't trust those programs you've cited.

 >
 >
   >>>- there is no dual channel DDR available (but I must say dual-channel is
 >
 > not
 >
   >>>mentioned on the box);
  >>
  >>You don't know your chipsets.
 >
 >
 > Right. That's why I mentioned it was not on the box, but only an expectation
 > from me due to the fact that I always used i868 or i875.

Again, it has abolutely no bearing here, except to illustrate that you
know just enough to get yourself in strife (or get yourself
disappointed). It's not a bad thing, we all start out somewhere.

 >
 >
   >>>- installation of windows 2000 worked normally, but install of Win XP
 >
 > was
 >
   >>>totally impossible (Win setup freezes early, at "press F6 to load
 >
 > additional
 >
   >>>disk drivers").
  >>
  >>This is a windows issue, not a mobo issue.
 >
 >
 > Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8, or
 > the P4VT8 is defective !

There are hardware incompatibilities. An 'OS incompatibility' is a
problem with the OS and the programming.

 >
   >>>This could have been an isolated single bad experience, but I did some
   >>>search on the net and encountered a lot of idenditical or similar
   >>>experiences.
  >>
  >>Because there are a lot of similarly inexperienced people who know just
  >>enough to get themselves stuck.
 >
 >
 > Maybe, but there are many, all with analog problems.

You mean analogous, right?

 > And although not an
 > "expert", I'm not "inexperienced", as I installed more than 100 individual
 > PC's (I mean not auto-installs through a network), mostly in sophisticated
 > video capture and editing configurations..

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is to
know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms of
computers (both hardware and software).

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

CBFalconer wrote:
 > JAD wrote:
  >>
  >> Wow, haven't talked about pulsar watches in some time. I have a
  >> Pulsar time computer. The last of the LED era. Red and emerald
  >> green readout, huge and pretty darn ugly ;^) but works like a
  >> charm. I have another that I haven't thought about for some time,
  >> it was a graduation present from my folks (circa 1976), you got
  >> me hunting for it now.
 >
 > I have an Intel offering from the same period. It was a prize for
 > my first version of floating point for the 8080, submitted to the
 > user group.

That sounds cool.

 > Nowadays I spend no more than $10 US for an LCD
 > display calendar/stop watch combo, which lasts about 5 years.

Yep, I used to do the same thing, invariably Casio, and they'd last and run
perfectly until the plastic strap broke (oxidised). Then it was about the
same price to get a new watch as it was to get a new strap.

However, I then went into business for myself, a consultancy business, and a
nice watch just seemed to make the difference youknow? When you're charging
someone $1,000 (NZ) a day they pay up better if you look good. My Pulsar is
a nice, chunky stainless steel watch with gold trim. Analogue but also with
a digital display at the bottom so I have calendar and alarm functions etc.
The business is long gone (due to injury) but the watch endures.
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

sooky grumper wrote:
 >
 > Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
 > numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
 > little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
 > to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
 > of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

In article <Rikcc.6316$d%6.111990@news.xtra.co.nz>, "~misfit~"
misfit61nz DeleteThis @yahoomung.co.nz says...
 > sooky grumper wrote:
  > >
  > > Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
  > > numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
  > > little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
  > > to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
  > > of computers (both hardware and software).
 >
 > Argumentum ad hominum.
 >
 > A sure sign of someone losing the case.
 >
It would only be "ad hominem" if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from what
"ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and experience are
indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore questionable.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

Piotr Makley wrote:
 > "~misfit~" <misfit61nz RemoveThis @yahoomung.co.nz> wrote:
 >
   >>>> Wise people in the know who
   >>>> weren't overly image-conscious bought Pulsar and saved
   >>>> approximately 40% and got the exact same ultra-reliable
   >>>> watch. They're made in the same factory, they just go to a
   >>>> different 'finishing line' where they are fitted into either
   >>>> a Seiko or a Pulsar case.
 >
   >>>
   >>> But what about quality control? Is that different?
   >>>
 >
  >> No, not at all. I happened to be in a jewellers shop when a
  >> Seiko/Pulsar rep was there, just as they bought out the Pulsar
  >> brand. He was explaining it to the shop owner. The internals
  >> come off the same production-line, go through the same QT, and
  >> are then diverted to either the Seiko or Pulsar 'finishing'
  >> line (for fitting into cases), depending on demand.
 >
 > Maybe the diverting is done based on the better versus worse
 > performing units? In other words they are all to spec but the very
 > best go one way and the poorer one go another way?

I don't think so (Mine is going strong, accurate to within 15 seconds a
year, after 13 years and three battery changes). I think it's more like the
diverting is done according to demand.
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:17:18 GMT, "ElJerid"
<s.vanderhaeghen.nospam.RemoveThis@pandora.be> wrote:


 >That's what I thought first, so I returned the Win XP CD to the dealer where
 >it was tested and appeared to install without problems. So I took it back
 >home and tried an install on 2 othersPC's without problems.

Seldom is it the cd... the most common problem when even the OS
installation won't finish, is incorrect BIOS settings or memory errors.

It is a very, very good idea to always test the memory for several hours
with <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.memtest86.com" target="_blank">http://www.memtest86.com</a> (memtest86)... Not only when you encounter
problems, but before every installing the OS to begin with. Some systems
only have a few errors, an install might finish but then corrupt files
will confound troubleshooting until the entire system is reinstalled after
memory is corrected.


 >
   >> > - when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board
 >USB
   >> > connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with
 >leds
   >> > always on;
  >>
  >> That's normal. Same with PS/2 ports. ATX always has some power going to
  >> the ports.
 >
 >Right, but not at the point that the leds on a card reader remain on when
 >power is down.

Many if not most modern boards have a hard-wired 5VSB circuit that can be
active when the machine is "off", keeping any number of USB/PS2 devices
powered. Typically that's controlled with one or more jumpers, which
should be detailed in the manual if their function isn't silkscreened onto
the board itself.


 >
   >> > - the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);
  >>
  >> The board doesn't crash, windows does.
 >
 >Also just after a clean install, and without any application installed or
 >running ???

The board could be bad or windows' files corrupt, or overheating, bad
power supply, etc, etc. Simply because a memory module appears to run
fine in one system, it's no guarantee that it'll run fine in another.
Some chipsets are picker, board designs not as good, or bios defaults (or
user changes to bios settings) can make a large difference. Sometimes
there's even major bios bugs in the lower-cost boards, making it very
important to update the bios for at least the first few bios releases.

 >
   >> > - the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is
 >mostly at
   >> > 72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.
  >>
  >> Where did you get those readings?
 >
 >As well from Sandra as from Aida 32

Do no rely on such 3rd party programs for temp and voltage... not on that
board or any board. Use the manufacturer's provided hardware monitor
program or the bios health monitor (or however it's worded) screen.

It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused voltage
so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.



 >Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8, or
 >the P4VT8 is defective !

I doubt it's an OS incompatiblity. Perhaps it is defective, but it's
quite a jump to conclude that without quite a bit of testing various
things first. Temp, voltage, fans, memory, etc.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

 >
 > The board could be bad or windows' files corrupt, or overheating, bad
 > power supply, etc, etc. Simply because a memory module appears to run
 > fine in one system, it's no guarantee that it'll run fine in another.
 > Some chipsets are picker, board designs not as good, or bios defaults (or
 > user changes to bios settings) can make a large difference. Sometimes
 > there's even major bios bugs in the lower-cost boards, making it very
 > important to update the bios for at least the first few bios releases.

That was also my first idea, but it appeared that the last release was
already installed.

   > >> > - the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is
  > >mostly at
   > >> > 72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.
   > >>
   > >> Where did you get those readings?
  > >
  > >As well from Sandra as from Aida 32
 >
 > Do no rely on such 3rd party programs for temp and voltage... not on that
 > board or any board. Use the manufacturer's provided hardware monitor
 > program or the bios health monitor (or however it's worded) screen.

Was also my idea when I had those strange reports. So I asked to Asrock
support and their answer was they don't supply any monitor program and that
all third-party programs could give erroneous readings ! This was of course
very helpfull...

 > It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
 > nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused voltage
 > so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.
 >
 >
 >
  > >Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8,
or
  > >the P4VT8 is defective !
 >
 > I doubt it's an OS incompatiblity. Perhaps it is defective, but it's
 > quite a jump to conclude that without quite a bit of testing various
 > things first. Temp, voltage, fans, memory, etc.

I agree, but I did a lot of testing and see my other post about what finally
the professional dealer found out.
Thanks for all the reactions.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

kony wrote:

<snip>

Slight change of subject from ~misfit~ (Yet again!)

 > It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
 > nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused
 > voltage so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.

(I'm not sure if I've mentioned this here)

Dave, remember I told you my PSU was outputting a really low 3.3v? I bit the
bullet and bought an AcBel 400W PSU and fitted it. The 3.3v is perfect now,
as are the +12v, -12v and the +5v. However, the -5v constantly reads
around -3.5v. I'm told in another group that this is nothing to worry about
and would only maybe effect serial ports (I don't use them, have them
disabled in BIOS).

I *still* don't have a DVM or multi-meter. I priced some yesterday, it's top
of my shopping list for when I have the money. (I could buy the cheapest one
now but it's not my nature to buy cheap'n'nasty stuff if I can aviod it)
Should I just not worry about this? (It's my nature to worry, I suffer from
an anxiety disorder). Or should I try returning the PSU? With the old PSU
(which, when I removed it from the case, turned out to be a 'Leaf' 400W)
the -5v was stable at spec.

BTW, the PC is running perfectly. The PSU, even though quieter than the old
one, pulls more air through my case, dropping case temps a couple of
degrees. Also, I've been able to drop the vcore from 1.825v to 1.80v
(XP1800+ @ 10.5 x 200Mhz) and it's still Prime95 stable, it wasn't Prime
stable at 1.80v with the other PSU, the vcore fluctuated a little more than
it does with this one.

The core temp seems a little lower than before too but it's hard to tell for
sure, we're having a cold-snap here that coincided with fitting the new PSU.
Room temp 16°C, Case temp 28°C (But the case thermistor is right in the
air-flow from the graphics card HSF) CPU diode, with SETI CLI running, 100%
load, 36°C.

Cheers,
--
~misfit~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS 

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:27:08 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz RemoveThis @yahoomung.co.nz>
wrote:


 >Dave, remember I told you my PSU was outputting a really low 3.3v? I bit the
 >bullet and bought an AcBel 400W PSU and fitted it. The 3.3v is perfect now,
 >as are the +12v, -12v and the +5v. However, the -5v constantly reads
 >around -3.5v. I'm told in another group that this is nothing to worry about
 >and would only maybe effect serial ports (I don't use them, have them
 >disabled in BIOS).

That's fine for the -5V reading. IIRC, modern com ports derive power from
3.3 or 5V, not -5V.

 >I *still* don't have a DVM or multi-meter. I priced some yesterday, it's top
 >of my shopping list for when I have the money. (I could buy the cheapest one
 >now but it's not my nature to buy cheap'n'nasty stuff if I can aviod it)
 >Should I just not worry about this? (It's my nature to worry, I suffer from
 >an anxiety disorder). Or should I try returning the PSU? With the old PSU
 >(which, when I removed it from the case, turned out to be a 'Leaf' 400W)
 >the -5v was stable at spec.

No need to worry about it, if it were unnecessarily loaded internal to the
power supply it would read the correct voltage but be wasting power and
creating a minor amount of heat... the cheaper built power supply probably
used a low current linear regulator and so it wasn't subject to the
voltage variations.

 >BTW, the PC is running perfectly. The PSU, even though quieter than the old
 >one, pulls more air through my case, dropping case temps a couple of
 >degrees. Also, I've been able to drop the vcore from 1.825v to 1.80v
 >(XP1800+ @ 10.5 x 200Mhz) and it's still Prime95 stable, it wasn't Prime
 >stable at 1.80v with the other PSU, the vcore fluctuated a little more than
 >it does with this one.

That's a good sign, hopefully your motherboard wasn't too stressed by the
old power supply.

 >The core temp seems a little lower than before too but it's hard to tell for
 >sure, we're having a cold-snap here that coincided with fitting the new PSU.
 >Room temp 16°C, Case temp 28°C (But the case thermistor is right in the
 >air-flow from the graphics card HSF) CPU diode, with SETI CLI running, 100%
 >load, 36°C.
 >
 >Cheers,

It may very well be slightly lower... if the old power supply required
running with vCore of 1.825V then that alone would cause more CPU heat,
and to a lesser extent motherboard heat.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: ASROCK versus ASUS