Albatron 7600 GS problem

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On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:10:41 +0100 (CET), FB Inc
<fbhas.RemoveThis@nomail.com> wrote:


>> How old is the card and can you do without it (you have a
>> spare card, or spare system, since returning it to a
>> manufacturer for RMA could take a while)?
>
>The card is less than one year old. I believe I could get another on the
>same day.

That seems to be the best option, though frankly if the fan
on this one is failing within a year, if at all possible it
would be better to get one with a different fan.

Unfortunately video card fan failures are all too common,
even expected with some types of fans. I generally pull the
fan off when the card is new and either preventatively lube
it with very very thick oil, or replace the whole
heatsink/fan assembly. I suppose if one monitors their fan
function enough they can just wait till the fan shows signs
of malfunction to replace it, but personally I prefer a
do-it-and-forget-about-it approach where I could leave a
system running for a year and it would need nothing but a
dusting out or filter cleaning after that period if the
conditions warranted it. I would never trust a stock video
card fan for that period of time unattended.


>
>>
>> Generally the message about not enough power happens when a
>> power connector on the edge of a card is not used, but that
>> card may not have a power connector at all so I am wondering
>> if your power supply doesn't have enough capacity.
>
>The card has a power connector properly used, and started giving this
>message fairly recently. I changed the psu with a very good one, with
>twice the power, but it started again displaying this message after a
>while.

You don't mention PSU brands or power (current) ratings so
we will have to assume you are right about these being very
good PSU instead of just fictionally rated ones. The
voltage reading from software or better from a direct
multimeter reading at the power contacts on the video card
would be a more telling sign of correct voltage level.

Rarely I'll hear of someone whose card has the power
contacts fouled, you might pull the card and inspect the
contacts under strong light. If the card weren't under
warranty or the hope of salvaging it outweighed the problem
with system downtime while it would be replaced, then I
might suggest getting a cotton swab dipped in metal polish
(Brasso or similar) and cleaning the metal contacts (only on
the power socket, do not use abrasive metal polish on the
card edge gold plated contacts), BUT because that could void
any warranty it should not be done when returning the card
to seller or RMA to manufacturer is a better option.

Note also that fouled video card connector contacts can foul
the contacts on the PSU connector. Ideally you would try a
different PSU connector now and one that is not supplying
power to anything else on the same wires. 7600GS is a very
modest power consumer by modern standards, but certainly
something is making it think the voltage at the power
connector is either not present or too low.

I suppose it's also possible there is a cold solder joint or
it has cracked, or other problem on the power input perhaps
a blown (won't reset properly) polyfuse. Reflowing the
solder joints and checking continuity with a multimeter
could be one attempt to troubleshoot this, as well as
voltage readings at various points along the card's onboard
power subcircuits, but this is beyond the ability of most
and with the opportunity to replace the card it may be best
not to do any kind of repair.

>> I suppose it's possible there is a fault with the card that
>> could cause this but offhand I don't know what that fault
>> could be. Does the card otherwise work properly?
>
>Well, if I reboot the pc it works ok, though the cooler has become quite
>noisy.

No message then about power? In that case I would begin to
suspect the PSU is not delivering high enough voltage,
either due to insufficient capacity or power connector
contacts, or too much running from one set of lead wires.

I think the fan is an unrelated problem, but also a second
reason to get the card replaced.


>
>>
>> The heatsink fan can be loud on these lower power cards
>> simply due to being a poor design using a fan with too high
>> an RPM, but if the sound is strange and very loud
>> (everyone's idea of what is very loud for a video card fan
>> might differ) it does seem to suggest the fan is defective
>> (if new) or just a poor quality fan that has already worn
>> itself out (if it had be running for many weeks or months).
>
>It used to run fine with minimal noise, so it might have just gone bad.
>
>>
>> For the power problem check your power supply voltage,
>> particularly the 12V level. It might be possible there is
>> a problem with the card's fan AND your power supply is
>> struggling to power the system, but it does seem as though
>> you should return the card if possible.
>>
>
>I think I will return it while it's still under warranty.

Agreed
 >> Stay informed about: Albatron 7600 GS problem 

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On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:53:15 +0100 (CET), FB Inc
<fbhas.RemoveThis@nomail.com> wrote:


>> Note also that fouled video card connector contacts can foul
>> the contacts on the PSU connector. Ideally you would try a
>> different PSU connector now and one that is not supplying
>> power to anything else on the same wires. 7600GS is a very
>> modest power consumer by modern standards, but certainly
>> something is making it think the voltage at the power
>> connector is either not present or too low.
>
>Damaging the contacts of my new psu is really depressing...

It would be temporary if it happened. As described for the
video card, a piece of paper towel that is rolled up then
some metal polish applied can clean a PSU contact pretty
well. It would be easier if you used a couple of needles
(or the proper tool) stuck down into the sides of the
contact to release it's friction tabs so it slides out of
the plastic shell first.

If the contact in the plug is loose you can sometimes bend
it back into shape again. These things are hard to
speculate on, not being able to see the PSU plug or the
video card in person, it would be visually obvious if there
is a problem though inside a contact is harder to see.

Another alternative IF the PSU contact is bad is to just use
a different plug now, most people have more plugs than they
need.

This still hasn't ruled out a cold or broken solder joint as
moving the plug may also effect an intermittent contact.
For now I'd say just replace the video card and go from
there.
 >> Stay informed about: Albatron 7600 GS problem 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:19:44 +0100 (CET), FB Inc
<fbhas DeleteThis @nomail.com> wrote:


>I think I am up to something.
>
>While searching for similar problems by other users, I came upon this:
>
>"Another problem I see with this AGP graphics card is the cooling design,
>which is a mistake on Albatron’s behalf. Not only is this graphics card
>quite pricey, but the package and card design are also quite average. The
>package features nothing more than a driver CD and two cables, there is
>no DVI connector supplied in the package. The package did not really
>bother me all that much as I was more concerned with the hardware cooling
>this graphics card. The GPU heatsink and fan combo is very average"
>
>http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=579

Your card does not produce much heat so it does not need a
large elaborate metal heatsink. IF it had a large
elaborate heatsink designed for passive cooling you would
not need a fan on it at all, but since it is small you need
the fan. The fan itself is typical of midrange and lower
end cards, a design prone to failure due to fairly high RPM,
horizontal mounting (probably a sleeve bearing fan), and
being thin and small it will tend to wobble earlier in it's
lifespan.

There are many other 7600GS as well as other makes and
models of card with a similarly short-lived fan. It is sad
the industry still hasn't mastered a simple thing like fans.



>
>
>
>This thread attributes the low power message to software settings:
>
>http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t29028.html

When do you get the low power notification? I had assumed
it was when the system turns on or finishes booting, not
later in use. A multimeter measuring the voltage at the
video card connector is the next step in collecting evidence
about this, but if they have software changes to suggest you
might as well try those.



>
>
>
>This tread attributes the low power message to overclocking (I haven't
>overclocked anything but it describes the problem perfectly):
>
>http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/606903.html

I'm not so confident they know what they're talking about,
as many people who have that card did not have this problem.
I happen to have an overclocked 7600GT, even voltmodded so
it overclocks further than it otherwise would, (though a
PCIe version not AGP) and never saw low power warning except
if I forgot to plug in the power plug on the rear of the
card).


>
>"I have the same problem, as do others.
>
>I also have a 7600 GS, I read that it was a driver issue. I am waiting
>for the next official release of drivers to come out.

That message was in 2006, I am sure they would have fixed
the problem by now. Are you using a relatively recent video
driver from http://www.nvidia.com ? If not, do so.


>I run my card overclocked, all the power thing really does is lower the
>clock speeds from a cold boot (when you first turn on the pc after it
>being off for a whole), to counter this I reboot straight away and
>everything works fine, a tad bit annoying but my computer is on for long
>periods of time so doesn't really matter.
>
>I believe its just off a cold boot that the power problem pops up. "
>

There is no need to use some "power thing" to lower clock
speeds. When your computer turns on, boots, and runs in
windows 2D mode the card is using a lower voltage. When you
go into 3D mode the driver causes a voltage increase. That
is the entirety of the situation and if a cold boot causes
the problem it should be hardware not a software problem.




>
>and another poster:

I will start by saying the following poster is more likely
to lead you astray than be helpful because of crucial
information missing from the post, which I will mention as
an example.


>
>"Can I join this discussion? I bought a GS 7600 last week, and have had
>exactly the same problem as the guy above. At cold start up the low power
>screen comes up

When the system is first turned on or after booting to
windows?


>and heaps of files refuse to load (dll's etc).

Which files? It matters. Was the system then tested for
CPU and memory stability? That should always be the next
step before speculating, especially if the dll's not loading
are not video card driver files.


>If I
>immediately reboot everything is fine. My PSU is rated at 450 watts which
>is theoretically heaps to keep the card happy.

No info given about the PSU. A 450W PSU can't be assumed
enough to keep the card happy because generic PSU may have
fictional labeled wattage, or an old PSU may have more 5V
current than 12V. We lack all the important details.

Having written that, a 7600GS video card does not need a
strong PSU, it is a very power conservative video card
relative to most. That is one of the reasons it can use
such a minimal heatsink, low power usage means low heat.


>Is it possible that the
>PSU can't provide enough power at start up but once its on (as with a
>quick reboot) it will supply enough wattage to keep the card happy?

Yes, but it's more likely the PSU has bad capacitors and
will soon fail. It's also possible the board or video card
itself has a problem, we can't just speculate without clear
evidence and testing.


>Is a
>better quality card the answer?? I've already been back to MSY and they
>gave me a replacement but the same thing has happened again!"

Then no, it's probably a problem with the system not the
video card. Just to rule out drivers the old should be
uninstalled and newest installed.

It seems like this poster had a power supply problem causing
system instability. Remember there are many types of
computer problems that can have similar results. It might
be possible MSI had done something different than other
manufacturers, sometimes MSI and Asus for example like to do
proprietary designs instead of following the nVidia
reference design and maybe they made some mistake, but this
is less likely than that the system has a problem,
especially since the system later runs ok.

For now you don't need to worry about this beyond returning
the video card since it already needs it to combat the
failing fan. Once you have a replacement card you can hope
that variable is ruled out.

Since your new PSU is sufficient I would even wonder if the
old one had damaged the video card but for the time being
unless you have a multimeter and will measure voltage at the
video card side of the power plug contacts, the remaining
step is to replace the card and see if that resolves this.
 >> Stay informed about: Albatron 7600 GS problem 

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 >> Stay informed about: Albatron 7600 GS problem 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:33:15 +0100 (CET), FB Inc
<fbhas.DeleteThis@nomail.com> wrote:

>kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote in news:s8aop31dgp7c7a0vjpeqd87d5o47sa20dl@4ax.com:
>
>> For now you don't need to worry about this beyond returning
>> the video card since it already needs it to combat the
>> failing fan. Once you have a replacement card you can hope
>> that variable is ruled out.
>
>I see that the shop I bought it from has only a few agp cards in stock,
>one is a gecube 2400 Pro:
>
>http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/GeCube-039-s-Radeon-HD-2400-Pro-AGP8X-2.jpg
>
>and the others are Sapphire ATI RADEON™ HD 2600 XT and Sapphire ATI RADEON™ HD
>2600 Pro, which are basically the same with the difference of chip and memory speed,
>and an enormous difference in size and cooling:
>
>http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/graphics-cards/sapphire-2600-pro-agp-512mb/3/
>
>http://www.ingame.de/pics/27621_300_191.jpg
>
>and
>
>http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/im.php/width/640/im/3794_7_Sapphire_Radeon_HD_2600XT.jpg
>
>(the last one is the pci-e version)
>
>Since chances are I will have to choose one of them, I wonder which I should go for.
>I would like something that doesn't run too hot or noisy, but I guess I am not in luck here.

None of these fans looks particularly impressive, it is hard
to predict if one version would be more reliable than
another.

As for heat and power, 2400 Pro is lowest, then 2600 Pro,
with 2600 XT highest. It also means 2600XT has highest
performance, but we don't know how much you need 3D gaming
performance or any other feature that might differ between
these cards. Generally if you were 3D gaming I would go
with the 2600 Pro for old games, or replace the whole system
(Motherboard, CPU, memory and video) moving to PCIe video
card for more modern gaming. 2600XT would make the most
sense if you were desperate to hold on to the rest of the
system as long as possible while playing last-generation
games with some eyecandy turned down, but frankly with the
added cost, it would be better to put that towards a new
PCIe platform today.

Without gaming the 2400 Pro is a more cost effective and
lower power solution (assuming it is on 65nm process too, I
can't remember), but it's fan life may not be so much
different from 2600 Pro, and your current PSU should be able
to handle either.
 >> Stay informed about: Albatron 7600 GS problem