Antec SP500 - UK to USA

> considering that PSU sells for $70.00 US it would be a lot safer to
replace
> peter


<snip>

I *humbly* apologize but I'd think he'd be better off replacing the PSU
than his peter.

(very sorry, I could not help it)
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

LOL

never even hit me when I typed it.......I must be slipping

peter
"philo" <philo DeleteThis @privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7NidnZA2l4cEEy7YnZ2dnUVZ_qisnZ2d@athenet.net...
>
>
>> considering that PSU sells for $70.00 US it would be a lot safer to
> replace
>> peter
>
>
> <snip>
>
> I *humbly* apologize but I'd think he'd be better off replacing the PSU
> than his peter.
>
> (very sorry, I could not help it)
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

"peter" <peter.TakeThisOut@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:0hMsh.748471$5R2.393140@pd7urf3no...
> LOL
>
> never even hit me when I typed it.......I must be slipping
>
> peter


I always see things in the most skewed manner
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

I think you're right. That seems the best idea.


Thanks
Darren
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

LOL !
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

Darren wrote:

> I have the UK version of the Antec SP500 psu and I'm planning on
> moving myself (and the pc) to the states within the next 6 months.
>
> The problem I have is the UK version does not have a voltage selector
> on the back (thanks Antec).
>
> Is the circuitry the same for both the US and UK versions of the
> SP500? Maybe with a slight circuit mod I'll be able to hard-wire a
> permant voltage selection (110v) on the circuit-board?
>
> I'm guessing that Antec have just omitted the wires to a switch and
> the circuit board is exactly the same. If not then I'll have to buy
> another unit, which seems crazy.

If you decide to open the power supply, take care to discharge the
high voltage capacitors. The same applies to fixing your own
microwave oven. I found this somewhat dated article on fixing
power supplies:

http://www.nutsvolts.com/PDF_Files/PSRepair.pdf

There is mention that in the design of the particular PS mentioned in the article,
there is a voltage divider made from capacitors. For 230v operation, voltage
would be taken from one end of the divider and the center "artificial ground."
There might also be a center tap on a transformer which could be switched
in for high voltage operation, and out for low voltage.

I would certainly take it apart and have a look inside. This would effectively
prevent me from doing something else that I should do, but don't particularly
want to do, or at least enable me to put it off until another day.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:26:58 GMT, Darren
<Darren.TakeThisOut@NoSpamHomeHQ.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>
>I have the UK version of the Antec SP500 psu and I'm planning on
>moving myself (and the pc) to the states within the next 6 months.
>
>The problem I have is the UK version does not have a voltage selector
>on the back (thanks Antec).

Does it have a spot for one, but the switch itself was
omitted?

Does it (or any literature) claim it has Active PFC or "Full
Range" ? If so, it may be capable of running from 110V
already.

If you took a PSU that could only run at 110V, and hooked it
up to 220V it may cause damage. If you took a PSU that
could only run at 220V and hooked it up to 110V, it should
merely fail to work, not turn on.

I'm suggesting that you try it on 110V, first only plugged
into AC with no system attached, short the Green PS-On lead
to ground and see if it comes on. If it does you're set.
If it doesn't, perhaps it needs a slight load, connect a low
(monetary) value load (a hard drive would suffice) and then
retry turning it on shorting PS-On to Gnd.

If this PSU was actually designed to have the option of
running from either voltage "IF" it had the switch, but they
left off the switch, it is possible to mod it yourself to
work. Since it was not immediately apparent to you already,
I caution against doing this yourself without assistance but
if you were able to take good quality pictures of the
top-down and underside of the PCB I could probably assist
you in doing the mod (pictures linked, not posted here).
I'd definitely try running it from 110V as mentioned above
first, it may be ready to use already if a full range PSU.


>
>Is the circuitry the same for both the US and UK versions of the
>SP500?

If it is made in the same factory, odds are quite high it
is. Can you see inside, how many of the large AC side
capacitors are there, and if only one, is there an empty
space where there could have been another one if they had
chosen to add another? Would you recognize Active PFC
circuitry if you saw it, and if so, does it have it?

There's probably a picture of one open, somewhere online.
You can open yours and compare to that.




>Maybe with a slight circuit mod I'll be able to hard-wire a
>permant voltage selection (110v) on the circuit-board?


Probably, "IF" the situation is as you're presuming and they
merely left off the switch and wires going to it, there
would be a couple spots on the PCB where you could solder on
a jumper wire. They should be quite easy to find, the HV DC
side of such a supply isn't terribly complex.



>
>I'm guessing that Antec have just omitted the wires to a switch and
>the circuit board is exactly the same. If not then I'll have to buy
>another unit, which seems crazy.
>
>I've posted an email to Antec with the same question, but obviously
>I'm asking about the PSU circuit which they might not be too keen to
>divulge?


It's not at all likely they would provide a schematic or aid
in modifying one. Actually the level 1 or 2 techs your
question would reach arent even likely to know the answer or
have access to the information, unless they can trace actual
part numbers and compare to those shipping to other regions
like the US. Even then, the part number would obviously be
a bit different, since it doesnt have the switch (unless all
are active PFC) contrasted with those that do have it.

If you can post a link to a good quality top-down (camera
lens close to parallel with the PCB, not at an angle)
picture, that should tell us a lot. It probably doesn't
need to be with the PCB pulled out of the PSU, whole thing
might even be kept wired to the system if there is slack in
the leads enough to rotate it enough to get the cover off
and snap a good picture.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

> > If you decide to open the power supply, take
> > care to discharge the high voltage capacitors.
>
> Not normally necessary, they normally have bleed
> resistors and the 5VSB usually drains them too.

Nevertheless, worth mentioning.

> > The same applies to fixing your own microwave oven.
>
> Only a fool of a novice would even attempt that.
> Those can kill even experience microwave techs.

Done it and lived to tell the tale. Did my homework first.

> Makes a lot more sense to just replace the power supply.

Have to take it out either way. Wouldn't hurt to have a look.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:40:40 GMT, "Fishface"
<invalid DeleteThis @ddress.ok?> wrote:

>> > If you decide to open the power supply, take
>> > care to discharge the high voltage capacitors.
>>

Are you just repeating an urban myth or have you done this?
Please describe what you did to drain them, and more
importantly, the voltage you measured on them just before
draining them.



>> Not normally necessary, they normally have bleed
>> resistors and the 5VSB usually drains them too.
>
>Nevertheless, worth mentioning.

Not really, you'd have to have even one ATX PSU that exists,
that didn't drain them to make a valid argument.

I've actually torn apart PSU and measured the time it takes
for the caps to drain. By torn apart I don't just mean
"take the cover off", I mean pulling out parts.

If the AC plug is pulled before it's opened, by the time you
have it opened it is not dangerous.



>> Makes a lot more sense to just replace the power supply.
>
>Have to take it out either way. Wouldn't hurt to have a look.
>

True it is easy enough to pop the cover and check the
obvious things, like vented caps or burn marks, though
before this the obvious step is to check the output with a
multimeter, before opening it.

Some more common faults aren't visible at all, for example
the chopper transistors. If someone feels it is a good
hobby/learning exercise to check these, or if the PSU is
rare/unreplacable or prohibitively expensive to replace
(unlike a garden variety ATX), it could make more sense to
do a repair... though of course the larger question is
whether it's worthwhile at all or was a piece of junk PSU.
Even with a proprietary PSU it could be more worthwhile to
find a way to implement a better one, which could mean a
wiring harness adapter or different chassis that accepts a
standard PSU.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

> >> > If you decide to open the power supply, take
> >> > care to discharge the high voltage capacitors.
> >>
>
> Are you just repeating an urban myth or have you done this?
> Please describe what you did to drain them, and more
> importantly, the voltage you measured on them just before
> draining them.

I am repeating what was written in the article I referenced. I am
further emphasizing that there is high voltage stored in capacitors.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility that someone might plug
it in with while disassembled or that a factory worker in China did
a half- assed job. However, you are free to play Russian Roulette,
if you desire.

> >Nevertheless, worth mentioning.
>
> Not really, you'd have to have even one ATX PSU that exists,
> that didn't drain them to make a valid argument.

Faulty logic.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:40:34 GMT, "Fishface"
<invalid.RemoveThis@ddress.ok?> wrote:

>> >> > If you decide to open the power supply, take
>> >> > care to discharge the high voltage capacitors.
>> >>
>>
>> Are you just repeating an urban myth or have you done this?
>> Please describe what you did to drain them, and more
>> importantly, the voltage you measured on them just before
>> draining them.
>
>I am repeating what was written in the article I referenced.

Then you have a faulty method of relaying info because you
have not determined the expertise of the author. Did you
think about what would be involved in draining the caps? If
you advocate it, surely you can describe this.

Did you realize that IF the caps held a charge still, it
could be just as dangerous to try to discharge as to leave
them alone?


>I am
>further emphasizing that there is high voltage stored in capacitors.

You can enphasize it all day long but in the end what
matters is if they continue to store it after disconnected
from AC and for how long.



>It is not beyond the realm of possibility that someone might plug
>it in with while disassembled

Irrelevant. There are several places inside with high
voltage while it's plugged in, the caps are one of the
lesser likely places one would contact (their sleeves are
insulating even if not rated for any particular level of it,
this isn't thousands of volts and the can isn't charged
relative to ground) and I know you aren't suggesting one try
to drain the caps while the PSU is powered.

The amount of time for an (even unloaded, no system/etc) ATX
PSU to discharge the caps to a safe level is seconds. It
would take longer to get to the caps to discharge them than
it takes for them to self discharge. You would actually be
more likely to encounter the remaining higher voltage by
trying to discharge them than not, becaues in those few
seconds you'd have to be handling the PCB or the primary
side heatsink unless you had the board suspended on some
bench vise type of arrangement.



>or that a factory worker in China did
>a half- assed job. However, you are free to play Russian Roulette,
>if you desire.

Quite irrelevant concept, unless you would write as much
about the risks of driving an automobile, eating food at a
restaurant, shaking someone's hand, breathing air in a
foreign environment like an airplane.

You are merely repeating and embellishing something
mis-learned.



>
>> >Nevertheless, worth mentioning.
>>
>> Not really, you'd have to have even one ATX PSU that exists,
>> that didn't drain them to make a valid argument.
>
>Faulty logic.

It is the only valid logic possible, that for it to be a
reasonable thing to consider you would have to know of at
least one that posed such a risk. Until you do, all the
evidence points the other direction.

Russian Roulette would be trusting what some article author
wrote without further investigation.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

kony wrote:
> Then you have a faulty method of relaying info because
> you have not determined the expertise of the author. Did
> you think about what would be involved in draining the caps?
> If you advocate it, surely you can describe this.

I have an aligator clip to ground with an insulated resistor probe that
the "fix your own microwave" article motivated me to make. I am aware
that the RC time constant will not cause this discharge to be instantaneous.
I think the resistor may have been 10k. If it is an urban myth, or otherwise
unnecessary, I will continue to err on the side of caution. I know that any
bleeder resistor will waste power, so on a high voltage capacitor, it is likely
to be a high value. How about 1M? Even after the very long RC time
constant of five and a half minutes, a 400v 330µF capacitor could still be
charged to over 100v.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA 

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 06:31:43 GMT, "Fishface"
<invalid.RemoveThis@ddress.ok?> wrote:

>kony wrote:
>> Then you have a faulty method of relaying info because
>> you have not determined the expertise of the author. Did
>> you think about what would be involved in draining the caps?
>> If you advocate it, surely you can describe this.
>
>I have an aligator clip to ground with an insulated resistor probe that
>the "fix your own microwave" article motivated me to make.

No I meant how did you propose to get at the spot to drain
them, without being just as much at risk of the HV you
supposed is still present and therefore dangerous?

Most PSU PCB aren't double-sided and those that are have
lacquer on top and are typically not carrying the HV DC on
top. Thus, if you propose to drain the caps and have the
resistive lead in-hand, you still have to find a way to do
it that is inherantly more safe than not doing it. There
are a few spots it may be possible to drain them, but if you
don't know where they are you can't very well do it?

If it makes you happy to do it, go ahead, but that's quite
different from suggesting that it /needs/ to be done.
 >> Stay informed about: Antec SP500 - UK to USA