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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:58 am
Post subject: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware>overclocking (more info?)
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My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes having
numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running, despite my
repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor show
an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's running XP
SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than eBay, that have
any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
Cheers
JW |
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Since: Oct 09, 2004
Posts: 2498
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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John Whitworth wrote:
> My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes
> having numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running,
> despite my repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
>
> My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor
> show an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's
> running XP SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than
> eBay, that have any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
>
> Cheers
>
> JW
As an example, Newegg still has Opteron 180 dual core, which is S939.
They don't have any desktop dual cores for S939 for sale. All the
S939 stopped production some time ago, so if product is left, it
may exist in isolated parts of the world.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103582
Support for Opteron dual core S939, in a desktop board, is not always the
best. Some motherboard manufacturers make no mention of whether they
work or not. Which makes using one, a potential gamble. (I.e. You
google to see if someone tried it with the particular motherboard.)
This is an example of regular S939 dual cores.
http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUResult.aspx?f1=AMD+Athlon%e2%8...2+64+X2
X2 Dual-Core 4800+ 2400 110 W
X2 Dual-Core 4600+ 2400 110 W
X2 Dual-Core 4600+ 2400 110 W
X2 Dual-Core 4400+ 2200 110 W
X2 Dual-Core 4400+ 2200 89 W
X2 Dual-Core 4200+ 2200 89 W
X2 Dual-Core 4200+ 2200 89 W
X2 Dual-Core 3800+ 2000 89 W
X2 Dual-Core 3800+ 2000 89 W
I think the FX-60 is also a dual core, out of the list here.
The rest of the FX S939, are singles.
http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUResult.aspx?f1=AMD+Athlon%e2%8...2+64+FX
In the list here, the FX-60 shows "2 x 1024 KiB", which means it is
a dual. It runs at 2.6GHz. It is the next step above a 4800+.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Athlon_64_microprocessors
There is no reason for most retailers to carry stock of S939.
If you want an upgrade, and to be able to buy it from a retail
outlet, chances are you'll be moving to AM2 or AM2+. The
Phenom B3 stepping will be out soon, and you could even move
to a triple or quad core with those. But that will be a
"forklift upgrade" for you, and means new motherboard and RAM
and maybe even a new video card.
Paul |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:58:50 +0000, John Whitworth wrote:
> My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes
> having numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running,
> despite my repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
>
> My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor
> show an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's
> running XP SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than
> eBay, that have any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
>
> Cheers
>
> JW
Going from a single core 3500+ to an X2 3600+ isn't worth it. An Opteron
is a better choice. However before you do that you'll need to see if
there is a BIOS update for the motherboard, there is a very good chance
that the BIOS on an old 3500+ system won't support a dual core. There can
be other issues. I upgraded a 3800+ system to an Opteron 180. The system
wasn't stable with 4G in it, I had to reduce it to 2G. The problem wasn't
the RAMs, I thoroughly tested them on another system plus the system
worked fine with these DIMMs when it had the 3800+ in it. It was the
combination of the Opteron 180 with 4 double sided DIMMs that this
motherboard couldn't handle. There was also an issue with the ondemand
CPU speed governor causing the system to crash, with the User Mode speed
governor everything is fine. The problem is that the motherboard is old
enough that the latest BIOS doesn't do a proper job of handling speed
changes. I'm using Linux so I have precise control over things like speed
governors, you don't have the same level of control with XP so if there
is a problem you won't be able to do anything about it.
Bottom line is that it's probably more trouble than it's worth to upgrade
a 939 system. If you want to do an upgrade you should replace the
motherboard and CPU and move to Intel. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 356
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul" wrote in message
> John Whitworth wrote:
>> My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes having
>> numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running, despite my
>> repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
>>
>> My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor
>> show an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's
>> running XP SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than
>> eBay, that have any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
What mainboard does your father use? If a proprietary system which model is
it? As the other poster mentioned, if the m/b will support it, an Opteron is
the best choice. (lower voltage, run coolers due to this, has double the L2
cache (2x1Mb) I've found eBay is by far the best place to go shopping for
one of these. I've bought two new OEM S939 Opterons over the last 6 months
off eBay (a 180 and a 185) and run them in on Asus A8N platforms which
support them with a BIOS update. Performance increase was dramatic. They
both overlclock to 2.9-3.0 Ghz pushing the voltage to stock X2 spec. There
was a dramatic increase in speed over my original A64 San Diego 4000+ ( 1Mb
L2) which was no slouch. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:09:58 +0000, John Whitworth wrote:
> "Augustus" wrote in message
>
>>
>> "John Whitworth" wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> Does this sound like good advice?
>>>
>>> http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=519736
>>
>> Go to the source. According to the link below, the latest BIOS update
>> from Jan 2007 shows added support for the AMD Socket 939 Rev:E6 family.
>> This includes the Opteron 180. So you'll need to update the ECS BIOS to
>> get support.
>> http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?
detailid=497&DetailName=Bios&MenuID=47&LanID=9
>
> Thanks. I'll have to check later though...the link appears dead from
> here! 
>
> As a slight aside though, the price of the 175s, 180s and 185s is a lot
> higher than some of the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ and 4400+ are going for. Are
> they really that much better?
>
> JW
The X2 4400+ and the Opteron 180 are the same part, 2.4GHz Dual Core with
1M caches. I didn't think the 4400+ was available anymore, Newegg only
has the Opteron. If you can get a 4400+ for less than the 180 then that's
what you should do. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:18:05 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:09:58 +0000, John Whitworth wrote:
>
>> "Augustus" wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> "John Whitworth" wrote in
>>> message
>>>>
>>>> Does this sound like good advice?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=519736
>>>
>>> Go to the source. According to the link below, the latest BIOS update
>>> from Jan 2007 shows added support for the AMD Socket 939 Rev:E6
>>> family. This includes the Opteron 180. So you'll need to update the
>>> ECS BIOS to get support.
>>> http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?
> detailid=497&DetailName=Bios&MenuID=47&LanID=9
>>
>> Thanks. I'll have to check later though...the link appears dead from
>> here!
>>
>> As a slight aside though, the price of the 175s, 180s and 185s is a lot
>> higher than some of the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ and 4400+ are going for. Are
>> they really that much better?
>>
>> JW
>
> The X2 4400+ and the Opteron 180 are the same part, 2.4GHz Dual Core
> with 1M caches. I didn't think the 4400+ was available anymore, Newegg
> only has the Opteron. If you can get a 4400+ for less than the 180 then
> that's what you should do.
Sorry the 939 X2 4400+ is 2.2GHz, the 180 is 2.4GHz. Don't confuse it
with the AM2 X2 4400+ which is 2.3GHz with 1/2M caches. The AM2 parts are
much cheaper than the 939 parts. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:03:58 +0000, John Whitworth wrote:
> "General Schvantzkopf" wrote in message
>
>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:18:05 -0600, General Schvantzkopf wrote:
>>
>> Sorry the 939 X2 4400+ is 2.2GHz, the 180 is 2.4GHz. Don't confuse it
>> with the AM2 X2 4400+ which is 2.3GHz with 1/2M caches. The AM2 parts
>> are much cheaper than the 939 parts.
>
> OK...thanks. I think I'll digest this properly in the morning, and then
> work out my eBay gameplan! 
>
> JW
I don't want to belabor the obvious but if you are seeing cheep prices
for a 4400+ it's probably for the socket AM2 which is useless to you.
When I Googled the 939 4400+ the prices were $240-$250. The Opteron 175
(which is identical to a 4400+) is $150, the 180 which is 2.4GHz is $170. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"John Whitworth" wrote in message
> My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes having
> numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running, despite my
> repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
>
> My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor show
> an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's running
> XP SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than eBay, that
> have any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
>
> Cheers
>
> JW
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-213-AM&groupid...1&catid
£35.24 including VAT. They are an excellent online vendor in the UK.
Oh, In answer to your question on whether it will run faster, though I don't
have an AMD dual-core, if they're anything like even the bottom-end Intel
chips, yes - multiple apps will run much, much more smoothly, if the
mainboard will work with a dual core CPU.
Dr.White. >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Augustus" wrote in message
>
> "Paul" wrote in message
>> John Whitworth wrote:
>>> My dad is using my old CPU, which is a single-core 3500+. He likes
>>> having numerous anti-spyware, anti-virus and other utilities running,
>>> despite my repeated warnings about them slowing the machine up.
>>>
>>> My question, therefore, is will the dual-core 3600+ X2 2GHz processor
>>> show an improvement over the single-core 3500+ 2.2GHz processor? He's
>>> running XP SP2 32-bit. And does anyone know of any places other than
>>> eBay, that have any higher specced 939 X2s available new?
>
> What mainboard does your father use? If a proprietary system which model
> is it? As the other poster mentioned, if the m/b will support it, an
> Opteron is the best choice. (lower voltage, run coolers due to this, has
> double the L2 cache (2x1Mb) I've found eBay is by far the best place to
> go shopping for one of these. I've bought two new OEM S939 Opterons over
> the last 6 months off eBay (a 180 and a 185) and run them in on Asus A8N
> platforms which support them with a BIOS update. Performance increase was
> dramatic. They both overlclock to 2.9-3.0 Ghz pushing the voltage to stock
> X2 spec. There was a dramatic increase in speed over my original A64 San
> Diego 4000+ ( 1Mb L2) which was no slouch.
The 3500+ was originally in my old Asus A8V. But for some reason, when I
upgraded to my Core 2 Duo system, that A8V died. So we got him a budget
board replacement, an ECS KV2 Lite. I've just checked CPU support, and it
seems to support all S939 CPUs, but no mention of Opterons!
http://www.ecsusa.com/ECSWebSite/Support/CPU_Support_Model.aspx?detail...497&Men
He is retired, so we went for the low-cost upgrade (i.e. just replace mobo),
and that is ideally what is required again - hence the desire to remain on
S939 and just change the CPU.
Cheers
JW >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul" wrote in message
>
> If you want an upgrade, and to be able to buy it from a retail
> outlet, chances are you'll be moving to AM2 or AM2+. The
> Phenom B3 stepping will be out soon, and you could even move
> to a triple or quad core with those. But that will be a
> "forklift upgrade" for you, and means new motherboard and RAM
> and maybe even a new video card.
>
Thanks for that Paul. Much useful advice there. Really need to stick with
S939, for cost reasons.
Cheers
JW >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"General Schvantzkopf" wrote in message
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:58:50 +0000, John Whitworth wrote:
>
> Bottom line is that it's probably more trouble than it's worth to upgrade
> a 939 system. If you want to do an upgrade you should replace the
> motherboard and CPU and move to Intel.
If money was not an issue, then I'd agree. In fact it's what I did when I
moved on from the A64 system that he has now. Just wanted to get around his
bottleneck of greedy Antivirus programs etc...and no, education hasn't
worked!! 
JW >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dr.White" wrote in message
>
>
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-213-AM&groupid...1&catid
>
> £35.24 including VAT. They are an excellent online vendor in the UK.
>
> Oh, In answer to your question on whether it will run faster, though I
> don't have an AMD dual-core, if they're anything like even the bottom-end
> Intel chips, yes - multiple apps will run much, much more smoothly, if the
> mainboard will work with a dual core CPU.
>
Thanks, I found that a little after I posted. Just not massively confident
that it will be worth it, and was eyeing up the 4200+ or 4400+ instead.
As I was browsing eBay, I came across this clown:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250217763253...PageNam
The "Just to let you know" comment was added after my Question to him, which
he has replied to and made public.
JW >> Stay informed about: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 21, 2006
Posts: 356
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Athlon 64 3500+ vs. Athlon 64 X2 3600+ [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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