BareBones question

"Wishy13764" <wishy13764.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031213203429.15599.00000842@mb-m03.aol.com...
 > Just what is actually considered barebones system? Is all you have to add
in
 > some cases are hd's, video card, modem,kybd and mouse and of course, OS.?
What
 > about all those wires that are loose in the case? My friend bought one and
now
 > he is confused with all those loose wires.

A barebones system can be anything from

a) a low specification computer that's only needs a monitor to function to
b) an incomplete kit of parts you need to add bits to and build yourself.

or somewhere in between.

Most computers include unused power and data connectors. These are provided
to make it easy for you to a new DVD drive or a second hard disc. Of course
there may not be room in the case for extra drives but quite frequently they
provide the connectors anyway!

Get him a copy of the book "Upgrading your PC" by Mark Soper and Partick
Norton. ISBN 0-7897-2599-1 published by Que Publishing.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.quepublishing.com" target="_blank">www.quepublishing.com</a>

I think they also have one on building your own PC.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Wishy13764 <wishy13764.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031213203429.15599.00000842@mb-m03.aol.com...

 > Just what is actually considered barebones system?

There is no nice tidy definition. The only real certainty is that
its not complete and ready to use, bits have to be added.

 > Is all you have to add in some cases are hd's, video
 > card, modem,kybd and mouse and of course, OS.?

Usually. A barebones system does usually
include the motherboard, cpu and memory.

 > What about all those wires that are loose in the case?

Some at least do have to be connected up.

Barebones doesnt mean that that has necessarily been done.

 > My friend bought one and now he is confused with all
 > those loose wires. He calls tech support, but has to wait
 > an hour or 2 before they call him back., and their accent
 > is not easy to understand over the phone especially.

You've got to wear that if you bought primarily on price.

 > I couldn't help either, just a guessing game. The
 > motherboard schematic came and shows where
 > everything is suppose to be and the manual of the
 > mb, but some of the illustrations show different
 > wordings that are actually on the ends ( small
 > black Connectors ) of the loose cables.

Yeah, you do need to know enough
about that to be able to handle that.

List the ones that dont have an obvious match.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

List the ones that dont have an obvious match.
   >>>>

Well, for starters, my friend finally got a tech this morning, and this tech
told him don't worry about those loose wires..they are only there for future
upgrades. I really can't understand that. Most of these cables are coming from
the front of the case...where usb,firewire,speakers and etc. are located, which
leads me to believe those cables have to go somewhere, or how else are those
features going to get their power? looking at the motherboard schematic, there
is shown 2 sockets that have pins and are empty.One is marked Firewire 1 and
the other Firewire 2..so then, how is that front firewire, usb and speakers are
getting its power, if they are not connected? Also there is one white plug..aka
the power plugs, but it only has 2 male pins, instead of the usual 4. Nothing
is marked where that is to go. In the manual where they show schematics of each
product pins, ie the Firewire 1 schematic shows the following pins, 1-10, in
this order, TPA2+,TPA2-,GND,GND,TPB2+,TPB2_,POWER,POWER,NO PIN,GND...NOW, THE
LOOSE CABLES ARE AS FOLLOWS..7..TPA+,TPA-,TPB+,TPB-,GND,VP,VG. Now is that a
match I ask you? The other loose cables are for usb 1 and usb 2, and another
cable is for Ear L, Ear R, Mic. Okay, Rod, you asked for it! <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

Wishy13764 <wishy13764 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031214153447.15561.00000826@mb-m12.aol.com...
 > Rod Speed wrote

  >> List the ones that dont have an obvious match.

 > Well, for starters, my friend finally got a tech this morning, and this
 > tech told him don't worry about those loose wires..they are only there
 > for future upgrades. I really can't understand that. Most of these cables
 > are coming from the front of the case...where usb,firewire,speakers
 > and etc. are located, which leads me to believe those cables have to
 > go somewhere, or how else are those features going to get their power?

They may be alternate cables. Some systems have a single
multipin connector for all the front panel ports which plugs into
a single connector on the motherboard. But not all motherboards
have that single connector for the front panel ports, so the case
has those other leads for motherboards that dont have the
single connector for all the front panel ports.

 > looking at the motherboard schematic, there is shown 2 sockets
 > that have pins and are empty.One is marked Firewire 1 and the
 > other Firewire 2..so then, how is that front firewire, usb and
 > speakers are getting its power, if they are not connected?

Do they actually work ? If they do, then its
likely just alternate leads as described above.

 > Also there is one white plug..aka the power plugs,
 > but it only has 2 male pins, instead of the usual 4.

Thats not that unusual when only 1 of the supplys is used,
so you have 1 pin for the supply and one for the ground.

 > Nothing is marked where that is to go.

If its a standard largish molex connector like is used for
hard drive power, it just goes into one of those power
connectors, usually powering a fan or maybe a light.

 > In the manual where they show schematics of each product pins,
 > ie the Firewire 1 schematic shows the following pins, 1-10, in this
 > order, TPA2+,TPA2-,GND,GND,TPB2+,TPB2_,POWER,POWER,
 > NO PIN,GND...

That looks like a two port firewire connector.

 > NOW, THE LOOSE CABLES ARE AS FOLLOWS..7..
 > TPA+,TPA-,TPB+,TPB-,GND,VP,VG.

The TP* labels should be obvious, just a slight different
labelling system for the motherboard and wires. That
TP* style labelling is usual for firewire ports.

GND is obvious.

VP and VG are power.

 > Now is that a match I ask you?

Its not as bad as it first looks.

 > The other loose cables are for usb 1 and usb 2,

The motherboard may not have headers for those usb

 > and another cable is for Ear L, Ear R, Mic.

Thats clearly for the audio, most likely the front panel audio
jack. Does that actually work currently ? If it does, likely
those are alternate connectors for motherboards that dont
have a single multipin connector for all the front panel ports.

 > Okay, Rod, you asked for it!

I did indeed. What does the motherboard manual say about
the model etc ? It'd be easier for me to get the electronic
manual of the manufacturer's web site if you can name it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

Thanks Rod...but let me begin by answering your question, "Does it work?". My
friend is fearful in trying to boot up the new system, because of those loose
wires. So we don't know if they are like the tech said for future upgrades. He
wants to feel secured in the knowledge of knowing about those cables.

The motherboard is P4 Titans series...GA-81PE1000 series..AGP 8X/dual channel
DDR Intel 865PE chipset

 > Also there is one white plug..aka the power plugs,
 > but it only has 2 male pins, instead of the usual 4.

Thats not that unusual when only 1 of the supplys is used,
so you have 1 pin for the supply and one for the ground.>>>

Fine, but where does it go to get connected? There are a slew of 4 pin power
connectors for hard drives and such, this one is different.

GND is obvious.

VP and VG are power.

 > Now is that a match I ask you?

Its not as bad as it first looks.>>>

It is to us..we don't know where it gets connected, now or for the future.

 > The other loose cables are for usb 1 and usb 2,

The motherboard may not have headers for those usb
   >>>

What are headers?

and another cable is for Ear L, Ear R, Mic.

Thats clearly for the audio, most likely the front panel audio
jack. Does that actually work currently ? If it does, likely
those are alternate connectors for motherboards that dont
have a single multipin connector for all the front panel ports.>>>

Yes, those were obvious, but we don't know if they are for the future, or
should be connected now, and again, to where? I guess the way to find out if
they need to be connected now to be effective is to boot the computer..but my
friend, and I don't blame him, is nervous about those wires, he's afraid he may
short the system in some way. He's had it now for 5 days and installed video
card,floppy, hd, dvd combo and just waiting to find out about those wires,
before he tries it for the first time. He personally would like to thank you,
as i do too, for your interest.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

"Wishy13764" <wishy13764 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031214153447.15561.00000826@mb-m12.aol.com...
 > List the ones that dont have an obvious match.
   > >>>>
 >
 > Well, for starters, my friend finally got a tech this morning, and this
tech
 > told him don't worry about those loose wires..they are only there for
future
 > upgrades. I really can't understand that. Most of these cables are coming
from
 > the front of the case...where usb,firewire,speakers and etc. are located,


Many cases provide USB and firewire connectors on the front panel. Internal
cable are provided to take the signals from the motherboard to the front
panel.

There are two possibilities:

a) They forgot to connect them.

b) The case supports _more_ front panel connectors than the motherboard
does. In which case these are redundant and they should be tidied up using
cable ties to stop them moving around in the case.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

Many cases provide USB and firewire connectors on the front panel. Internal
cable are provided to take the signals from the motherboard to the front
panel.

There are two possibilities:

a) They forgot to connect them.

b) The case supports _more_ front panel connectors than the motherboard
does. In which case these are redundant and they should be tidied up using
cable ties to stop them moving around in the case.


   >>>>>

Thats fine, but how does one know for sure without the possibility of creating
a 'problem'?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

You need the mother board and case manuals. It should be possible to work it
out from those. eg if they both support Two front mounted USB ports and only
one is connected then you need to decide if you need/want the other one
conencted.

Just to complicate matters....

My case supports two front panel USB ports and there is a cable with plugs
provided. My motherboard also supports two front panel mounted USB ports and
there are sockets provided to connect cables. HOWEVER the pin out on the
cable does not match the pin out on the motherboard! I had to cut the
connector off the cable and fit a new one. Ho hum.






"Wishy13764" <wishy13764 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031215103550.29591.00000264@mb-m02.aol.com...
 > Many cases provide USB and firewire connectors on the front panel.
Internal
 > cable are provided to take the signals from the motherboard to the front
 > panel.
 >
 > There are two possibilities:
 >
 > a) They forgot to connect them.
 >
 > b) The case supports _more_ front panel connectors than the motherboard
 > does. In which case these are redundant and they should be tidied up using
 > cable ties to stop them moving around in the case.
 >
 >
   > >>>>>
 >
 > Thats fine, but how does one know for sure without the possibility of
creating
 > a 'problem'?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

Normally if you power up a computer without a cable connected (eg one that
should be connected) there is very little chance of it causing damage.
Normally all that happens is that that bit won't won't work. If you are
worried find someone local to have a look at it for you first.
 >> Stay informed about: BareBones question 

Wishy13764 <wishy13764.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031215085625.03883.00001015@mb-m07.aol.com...

 > Thanks Rod...but let me begin by answering your
 > question, "Does it work?". My friend is fearful in trying
 > to boot up the new system, because of those loose wires.

There is no risk with front panel ports that arent actually connected
to the motherboard. The worst that can happen is that the front
panel ports that those loose wires are connected to wont work.

 > So we don't know if they are like the tech said for future upgrades.

That does sound rather dubious. Tho they usually do try
to simplify the story for people like that. Its hard to explain
it clearly to those who dont understand the basics.

 > He wants to feel secured in the knowledge of knowing about those cables.

You'd need to compare what the motherboard manual says
with what the case manual says about those loose wires to
be sure and you may or may not have a manual for the case.

 > The motherboard is P4 Titans series...GA-81PE1000 series..
 > AGP 8X/dual channel DDR Intel 865PE chipset

That particular motherboard does have a number of USB ports,
8 in total, 4 on the back panel connectors on the motherboard
and headers for another 4 front panel connectors.

It also has 3 internal firewire ports with headers for 2 front
panel connectors if you have the P version of that board.

You should be able to count the front panel USB and firewire
connectors and see how many are used on the motherboard.

  > > Also there is one white plug..aka the power plugs,
  > > but it only has 2 male pins, instead of the usual 4.

 > Thats not that unusual when only 1 of the supplys is used,
 > so you have 1 pin for the supply and one for the ground.

 > Fine, but where does it go to get connected?

To one of the power connector from the power
supply normally if its physically compatible.

 > There are a slew of 4 pin power connectors
 > for hard drives and such, this one is different.

Yeah, thats not unusual with case fans, they arent
always connected to the motherboard, because
not all motherboards have provision for them.

Since its only got 2 wires, it doesnt have a sense
line that the motherboard can use to detect that its
stopped. The case does presumably have an extra
fan thats can be seen that those wires go to ?

It can just be one of those stupid neon lights etc too.

  >> The other loose cables are for usb 1 and usb 2,

 > The motherboard may not have headers for those usb

It certainly does now that I have seen the manual.

 > What are headers?

A set of pins sticking up from the motherboard, sometimes
with a plastic shroud and sometimes not depending on the use.

In the case of the USB ports, that motherboard has two
headers, each one of which is for a pair of USB ports.

Those are labelled
20) F_ USB1 / F_USB2(Front USB Connector, Yellow )

Its pretty important to connect both the USB and firewire
pins correctly, you can damage the motherboard if you dont.

   >>> and another cable is for Ear L, Ear R, Mic.

  >> Thats clearly for the audio, most likely the front panel audio
  >> jack. Does that actually work currently ? If it does, likely
  >> those are alternate connectors for motherboards that dont
  >> have a single multipin connector for all the front panel ports.

That motherboard doesnt have a single connector for all front panel ports.

 > Yes, those were obvious, but we don't know if
 > they are for the future, or should be connected now,

Looks like they should be connected now otherwise the
front panel audio connector wont work for a headset etc.

 > and again, to where?

You need to do two things, connect those to the motherboard
AND pull the jumpers that specify if the front panel or rear panel
outputs are to be used by the motherboard, documented in
14) F_AUDIO (F_AUDIO Connector)

No need to bother if you dont want

to use a front panel headset connector.



 > I guess the way to find out if they need to be connected
 > now to be effective is to boot the computer..but my friend,
 > and I don't blame him, is nervous about those wires, he's
 > afraid he may short the system in some way.

Yeah, it is possible to do that, particularly with the USB and firewire ports.

BUT its quite safe to turn it on with the loose wires not connected
and see if the front panel USB and firewire ports work. You can
also just check if anything is connected to the motherboard USB
and firewire headers using the manual to identify them.

 > He's had it now for 5 days and installed video card,
 > floppy, hd, dvd combo and just waiting to find out
 > about those wires, before he tries it for the first time.

Its quite safe to try with those spare leads not connected to anything.
Just make sure the ends are well clear of the motherboard.

 > He personally would like to thank you,
 > as i do too, for your interest.

No problem, thats what these groups are for.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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