Big Question for the group... About Video Editting

E5I5O wrote:

 > I do have an ATI All In
 > Wonder Pro 128 card currently but I find that is drops out frames during
 > recording,

That is the -system-, not the card. Either the HD is too slow or the
processor is sounds like both. Also simply haveing the machine configured
wrong, like DMA not enabled can do this kind of thing. See
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.videoguys.com" target="_blank">www.videoguys.com</a> for system tweaks etc.


 > but the new system I feel should be running at least 1 Gig of
 > memory

I capture clean video on machines with a little as 256Mb, for XP you will
want 512. A P3 800 is too slow for what you're trying to do.

 > and with at least 2.4 Gig in Processor speed (if not better)

Better, get at least a 2.8C 800FSB. Over all I find P4's better for video
apps as most are optimized for the P4. For any other application AMD's are
fine but video rocks on a P4.

 > I know
 > that the Ati 9800 series card is the baddest with some of the big guns,
 > but I have a very limited budget also to consider!

The "video card" has nothing to do with video editing or capture, spend your
money elsewhere like a faster CPU or faster/larger hard drives. BTW spend
the extra few $$ and get 7200 RPM 8MB cache drives.


--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:02:44 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam.TakeThisOut@twcny.rr.com>
wrote:

<snipped and edited reworded and so on and so on>

 >old HP 800 Mhz Intel P3 too slow

 >want to edit serious video from analog to digital (make DVDs),
 >currently I own a Toshiba DVD- RW (SD-r5002 model).

 >I have looked at ATI 9800 All In Wonder Pro cards, is there a better
 >way to capture the video? If so what product
 >can capture in real time without dropping out frames?

Yes, anything is better than an AIW Pro, because it's disproportionately
higher priced, can't be upgraded without wasting the tuner capture
feature, paying for it again, and the ATI software is crap, plus it
doesn't come with any viable 3rd party software.

Anything can capture without dropping frames. The capture card has
nothing to do with dropping frames, the speed of the rest of the system is
what matters, CPU, hard drive(s), codec, resolution, etc.

 > I do have an ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 card
 >currently but I find that is drops out frames during recording, and further
 >when installed with the DVD-RW in my HP I can't turn the system off (some
 >unknown hardware conflicit MS, BS is not picking up).

Don't buy proprietary HP boxes, or ATI cards with crap software/drivers.
Your current AIW128 is good enough at video capture, there is no
performance benefit or lessening of frame drops with a faster video card's
core chipset, as that has nothing to do with the capture, mainly just the
3D performance and misc. unrelated features.

 > I also own a very outdated Pinnacle Systems Studio
 >Online (which usually works good), which uses a 1.0 Ver. USB connection.

If you like lower resolution MPEG then that's fine, but if your camcorder
has firewire you should just get a system with firewire support, else a
standard capture card that allows you to save to a lossless format so you
can edit without having to recompress. It's better to have versatility
and need learn how to do something than to be locked into only one simple
way of making low-to-median quality results. Try your current AIW card on
a faster system and if that doesn't work I suggest a standard PCI capture
card, unless your camcorder has firewire port, then definitely use that
instead.

 >There are some that would argue that my lame ass Windows ME has a lot to do
 >with it, but that to me is just an excuse, as there is too much wrong with
 >Wintel to begin with (example Windows 95/ 486, I never found a problem).

Forget about the bad rep WinME has for a moment and consider that if the
software and drivers support ME, if it WORKS, it works. There are many
reasons to choose a different OS, but video editing isn't necessarily one
of them except that Win2K/XP support NTFS so you have support for files >
2GB. Well there's also the issue of memory support, that ME is best left
at 1GB or less memory, but unless you're going to be getting into large
edits, often, the OS can be considered later.

 > I also currently own a Sony Digital Camcorder with S-Video output

Practically every capture card has S-Video support, as your current AIW128
does. Your main problem with the present gear is the 800MHz P3, and
perhaps also the hard drive(s), too slow.

 >feel at least 1 GB memory, 2.4 GHz Processor
 > I have a very limited budget, price is an issue. around $1000 or less,

$120 Antec Sonata Case w/power supply
$180 P4 2.8GHz /800FSB Northwood (retail, w/heatsink)
$220 512MB PC3200 Memory (x 2, a pair of 'em, 1GB total)
$ 70 Basic Video card, cost rises steeply if 3D gaming is important
$0 Reuse optical drive, floppy, etc, etc, from HP.
$230 160GB Hard Drives, 2 of 'em, beneficial to have 2 for editing or RAID
$110 Motherboard, Intel 865 chipset
----------
$930

Prices of above items may be off a bit, and fluctuate based on market,
sales, bundle pricing, etc.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

Your 800Mhz P3 should be fast enough to capture using
the AIW128 without dropping frames. Things to consider
are:

- making sure you have enough memory
- disabling background proggies, or making sure that
your A/V software isn't trying to scan your capture
files (turn off A/V scanning for your capture folder, or
set the A/V to only scan selected file types instead of
everything)
- get a dedicated capture drive, hooked up to the second
IDE controller or a seperate PCI capture card
- use a codec like HuffYUV or PicVideo MJPEG at Q19 to
reduce the amount of raw data being captured at high
resolutions (MJPEG Q19 at 720x480 is around 3.5-4.0 MB/s
or 13-15GB/hr, raw video is much higher).

In fact, other then encoding speeds, a P3 800 would make
a good dedicated capture box. Then just transfer the
files across the LAN to your fast gaming box to do CPU-
intensive stuff like encoding.

However, the other strike against your P3 is that you're
running WinME instead of Win2K or WinXP. Since WinME
can't make use of the NTFS file system, you run into the
nasty 4Gb file limit. (NTFS is pretty much required if
you want to do video editing, without a lot of trouble.)
You might be able to get an OEM copy of WinXP for $135
or so, but you'd have to buy something like a hard drive
or motherboard with it. (Ask the retailer, e.g.
mwave.com, for the purchase requirement details.)

----

OTOH, if you want to ditch the AIW128 as a capture
device (e.g. you don't want to deal with the A/V sync
issues). Look into going with either a set-top DVD
recorder (seriously simple) or a Canopus ADVC-100 box
that converts analog video into DV files (13GB/hr).

----

All that being said, I use an AMD AthlonXP 2600+ system
with 1Gb DDR333 and a 5400rpm 160Gb WD drive along with
an $80 Hauppauge WinTV-dbx card and a Turtle Beach Santa
Cruz soundcard to do my captures (running WinXP). I
generally capture at 704x480 or 352x480 using MJPEG Q20
(8.0-9.0 MB/s at 704x480) with zero dropped frames.

Downside is A/V sync for anything over 30 minutes at a
stretch (have to muck with the audio to make it fit
during post-production).

If I wanted, I could probably build the box for myself
again pretty cheap ($40 CPU, $50 RAM, $50 motherboard,
$80 capture card, $80 soundcard, $50 video card, $50
case, $100 hard drive, $135 WinXP Pro = $635, plus
extras like a DVD writer for $125).

In article <oCZfc.59258$M3.42245@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
jbaker7nospam RemoveThis @twcny.rr.com says...
 > Ok I am looking at purchasing a new computer here my old HP 800 Mhz Intel P3
 > isn't doing it! I want to edit serious video from analog to digital (aka
 > make home made DVDs), currently I own a Toshiba DVD- RW (SD-r5002 model). My
 > main problem is in the new system I have looked at ATI 9800 All In Wonder
 > Pro cards, is there a better way to capture the video? If so what product
 > can capture in real time without dropping out frames? I also currently own
 > Pinnacle Systems Studio 9 for editting and I love the GUI as it is easy to
 > understand and straight forward to operate. Further in my new system I am
 > considering upgrading to a Pioneer DVR- A07 for the dual format reasons and
 > the bragging rights!! LOL! I do have an ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 card
 > currently but I find that is drops out frames during recording, and further
 > when installed with the DVD-RW in my HP I can't turn the system off (some
 > unknown hardware conflicit MS, BS is not picking up). BUT I am not limited
 > to capture by the ATI, as I also own a very outdated Pinnacle Systems Studio
 > Online (which usually works good), which uses a 1.0 Ver. USB connection.
 > There are some that would argue that my lame ass Windows ME has a lot to do
 > with it, but that to me is just an excuse, as there is too much wrong with
 > Wintel to begin with (example Windows 95/ 486, I never found a problem). I
 > know more then I am letting on with computers, and not your normal lame ass
 > user. But I listen to logical, and realistic folks when they have a good
 > point (in other words spammers don't bother repling). I also currently own a
 > Sony Digital Camcorder with S-Video output, another thought about my new and
 > old systems, I am currently running 512 megs of RAM (maxxed out) in my
 > current system, but the new system I feel should be running at least 1 Gig
 > of memory and with at least 2.4 Gig in Processor speed (if not better) I
 > know that the Ati 9800 series card is the baddest with some of the big guns,
 > but I have a very limited budget also to consider! I would like to see in
 > short how many might consider builting the system outlined above as far as
 > price is an issue. In closing I feel that it could be built for around $1000
 > or less, provided that ease of use and OS understanding. Does anybody out
 > there understand me or am I just messing with things I can't understand or
 > control?
 >
 > Very Sincerely, E5
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

Thank you!!! I will look into this! I talked to one "guy" locally that says
this system can be built for $1400 I found prices to be around $3500, if I
could get your sources please? Thanks again!

Sincerely E5


"kony" <spam.RemoveThis@spam.com> wrote in message
news:9b0180drbo95ojve0jt8afqbutepkv47vt@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:02:44 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam.RemoveThis@twcny.rr.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 > <snipped and edited reworded and so on and so on>
 >
  > >old HP 800 Mhz Intel P3 too slow
 >
  > >want to edit serious video from analog to digital (make DVDs),
  > >currently I own a Toshiba DVD- RW (SD-r5002 model).
 >
  > >I have looked at ATI 9800 All In Wonder Pro cards, is there a better
  > >way to capture the video? If so what product
  > >can capture in real time without dropping out frames?
 >
 > Yes, anything is better than an AIW Pro, because it's disproportionately
 > higher priced, can't be upgraded without wasting the tuner capture
 > feature, paying for it again, and the ATI software is crap, plus it
 > doesn't come with any viable 3rd party software.
 >
 > Anything can capture without dropping frames. The capture card has
 > nothing to do with dropping frames, the speed of the rest of the system is
 > what matters, CPU, hard drive(s), codec, resolution, etc.
 >
  > > I do have an ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 card
  > >currently but I find that is drops out frames during recording, and
further
  > >when installed with the DVD-RW in my HP I can't turn the system off (some
  > >unknown hardware conflicit MS, BS is not picking up).
 >
 > Don't buy proprietary HP boxes, or ATI cards with crap software/drivers.
 > Your current AIW128 is good enough at video capture, there is no
 > performance benefit or lessening of frame drops with a faster video card's
 > core chipset, as that has nothing to do with the capture, mainly just the
 > 3D performance and misc. unrelated features.
 >
  > > I also own a very outdated Pinnacle Systems Studio
  > >Online (which usually works good), which uses a 1.0 Ver. USB connection.
 >
 > If you like lower resolution MPEG then that's fine, but if your camcorder
 > has firewire you should just get a system with firewire support, else a
 > standard capture card that allows you to save to a lossless format so you
 > can edit without having to recompress. It's better to have versatility
 > and need learn how to do something than to be locked into only one simple
 > way of making low-to-median quality results. Try your current AIW card on
 > a faster system and if that doesn't work I suggest a standard PCI capture
 > card, unless your camcorder has firewire port, then definitely use that
 > instead.
 >
  > >There are some that would argue that my lame ass Windows ME has a lot to
do
  > >with it, but that to me is just an excuse, as there is too much wrong
with
  > >Wintel to begin with (example Windows 95/ 486, I never found a problem).
 >
 > Forget about the bad rep WinME has for a moment and consider that if the
 > software and drivers support ME, if it WORKS, it works. There are many
 > reasons to choose a different OS, but video editing isn't necessarily one
 > of them except that Win2K/XP support NTFS so you have support for files >
 > 2GB. Well there's also the issue of memory support, that ME is best left
 > at 1GB or less memory, but unless you're going to be getting into large
 > edits, often, the OS can be considered later.
 >
  > > I also currently own a Sony Digital Camcorder with S-Video output
 >
 > Practically every capture card has S-Video support, as your current AIW128
 > does. Your main problem with the present gear is the 800MHz P3, and
 > perhaps also the hard drive(s), too slow.
 >
  > >feel at least 1 GB memory, 2.4 GHz Processor
  > > I have a very limited budget, price is an issue. around $1000 or less,
 >
 > $120 Antec Sonata Case w/power supply
 > $180 P4 2.8GHz /800FSB Northwood (retail, w/heatsink)
 > $220 512MB PC3200 Memory (x 2, a pair of 'em, 1GB total)
 > $ 70 Basic Video card, cost rises steeply if 3D gaming is important
 > $0 Reuse optical drive, floppy, etc, etc, from HP.
 > $230 160GB Hard Drives, 2 of 'em, beneficial to have 2 for editing or RAID
 > $110 Motherboard, Intel 865 chipset
 > ----------
 > $930
 >
 > Prices of above items may be off a bit, and fluctuate based on market,
 > sales, bundle pricing, etc.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

I have DMA enabled, but I can't install the ATI card as with the DVD and the
AIW it crashes my system and doesn't allow me to shut it off (which has
become too many Newsgroup conversations then I care to talk about) in short
I have a hardware conflicit nobody wants to answer for! So for now I don't
have the AIW installed and the DVD- RW is in the box!! Agreeing with you
fully it is in the system some place as I have been around computers for 14
years now, but forget that for a moment! Pretend I am stupid in that
area....laughingly....I know that something is "up" with the system. I can't
install XP without a bunch of upgrades to my current POS HP on 512 of DIMM
SDRAM. The ATI piece like I say conflicits with the DVD-RW so no help
there...but I have a way outdated Pinnacle System Studio Online which works
fine but I am still having problems. I am however running a secondary hard
drive for capture WD 40 at 7200 rpms my "new system" I want two 120 Gig at
7200 rpms. My current system runs with a Maxtor at 7200 rpms in my "stock"
HP ( I use stock loosely) so I know it isn't the drive speed. Outside of
running full blown SCSI drives I know I should be ok even with the 800 Mhz
for limited video control, but I am not. I worked on a security video
recorder such as you might find in an airport security system (boy push that
national security issue a moment) but found those systems to run128 Megs
with four 80 Gig hard drive and I feel my system should be able to record
single layer DVDs. In short it should be simple to to get the quality but
you mentioned other cards or sources for capture...Like what without an ATI
that may be compatible? Who else offers a reasonable priced board that can
take what I am looking for? I would like to find a company (which is I guess
my main question) A company that in themselves can allow me to capture both
live Cable TV, and analog video and produce the end DVD product I wish to
view later. I really have to agree with you that the Processor speed is key,
but there have been folks doing the same with less in porn groups (God now I
am talking Spam) and what not. There is one place I know locally that offers
turning home movies into DVDs and I thought that idea up years before that
business started (if only me Ex would have seen the market value), and I
have tried to breach that market in my area but always fell short due to
funding. I know for my personal use now I should be able to do better. Thank
you again.

Sincerely, E5

"Stacey" <fotocord RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5q7qq$4jqo3$1@ID-52908.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > E5I5O wrote:
 >
  > > I do have an ATI All In
  > > Wonder Pro 128 card currently but I find that is drops out frames during
  > > recording,
 >
 > That is the -system-, not the card. Either the HD is too slow or the
 > processor is sounds like both. Also simply haveing the machine configured
 > wrong, like DMA not enabled can do this kind of thing. See
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.videoguys.com" target="_blank">www.videoguys.com</a> for system tweaks etc.
 >
 >
  > > but the new system I feel should be running at least 1 Gig of
  > > memory
 >
 > I capture clean video on machines with a little as 256Mb, for XP you will
 > want 512. A P3 800 is too slow for what you're trying to do.
 >
  > > and with at least 2.4 Gig in Processor speed (if not better)
 >
 > Better, get at least a 2.8C 800FSB. Over all I find P4's better for video
 > apps as most are optimized for the P4. For any other application AMD's are
 > fine but video rocks on a P4.
 >
  > > I know
  > > that the Ati 9800 series card is the baddest with some of the big guns,
  > > but I have a very limited budget also to consider!
 >
 > The "video card" has nothing to do with video editing or capture, spend
your
 > money elsewhere like a faster CPU or faster/larger hard drives. BTW spend
 > the extra few $$ and get 7200 RPM 8MB cache drives.
 >
 >
 > --
 >
 > Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

Thanks....The card is great BUT I still do a lot of Analog Video (without
the S Vid). If the card only had an Analog port it would probably work
great! Anything you might come across though would be seriously considered!


Sincerely E5


"Duddits" <Duddits RemoveThis @Dreamcatcher.com> wrote in message
news:us2180d5h6a4da7sa8mlbpvnns1qgspoq0@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:02:44 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam RemoveThis @twcny.rr.com>
 > wrote:
 >
  > >Ok I am looking at purchasing a new computer here my old HP 800 Mhz Intel
P3
  > >isn't doing it! I want to edit serious video from analog to digital (aka
  > >make home made DVDs), currently I own a Toshiba DVD- RW (SD-r5002 model).
My
  > >main problem is in the new system I have looked at ATI 9800 All In Wonder
  > >Pro cards, is there a better way to capture the video? If so what product
  > >can capture in real time without dropping out frames? I also currently
own
  > >Pinnacle Systems Studio 9 for editting and I love the GUI as it is easy
to
  > >understand and straight forward to operate. Further in my new system I am
  > >considering upgrading to a Pioneer DVR- A07 for the dual format reasons
and
  > >the bragging rights!! LOL! I do have an ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 card
  > >currently but I find that is drops out frames during recording, and
further
  > >when installed with the DVD-RW in my HP I can't turn the system off (some
  > >unknown hardware conflicit MS, BS is not picking up). BUT I am not
limited
  > >to capture by the ATI, as I also own a very outdated Pinnacle Systems
Studio
  > >Online (which usually works good), which uses a 1.0 Ver. USB connection.
  > >There are some that would argue that my lame ass Windows ME has a lot to
do
  > >with it, but that to me is just an excuse, as there is too much wrong
with
  > >Wintel to begin with (example Windows 95/ 486, I never found a problem).
I
  > >know more then I am letting on with computers, and not your normal lame
ass
  > >user. But I listen to logical, and realistic folks when they have a good
  > >point (in other words spammers don't bother repling). I also currently
own a
  > >Sony Digital Camcorder with S-Video output, another thought about my new
and
  > >old systems, I am currently running 512 megs of RAM (maxxed out) in my
  > >current system, but the new system I feel should be running at least 1
Gig
  > >of memory and with at least 2.4 Gig in Processor speed (if not better) I
  > >know that the Ati 9800 series card is the baddest with some of the big
guns,
  > >but I have a very limited budget also to consider! I would like to see in
  > >short how many might consider builting the system outlined above as far
as
  > >price is an issue. In closing I feel that it could be built for around
$1000
  > >or less, provided that ease of use and OS understanding. Does anybody out
  > >there understand me or am I just messing with things I can't understand
or
  > >control?
  > >
  > >Very Sincerely, E5
  > >
 >
 > 2 speedy computers built for ~$1000.00
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=123197,00.asp</font" target="_blank">http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=123197,00.asp</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=121639,00.asp</font" target="_blank">http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,1583,a=121639,00.asp</font</a>>
 >
 > I recommend AVerMedia capture card $79.00 - be sure to get latest
drivers.
 >
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-100-007&depa=0" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=15-100-007&depa=0</a>
 >
 > regards
 >
 > Dud
 >
 > --
 >
 > If we are what we eat. I'm cheap, fast, and easy.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:05:22 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam.RemoveThis@twcny.rr.com>
wrote:

 >Thank you!!! I will look into this! I talked to one "guy" locally that says
 >this system can be built for $1400 I found prices to be around $3500, if I
 >could get your sources please? Thanks again!
 >
 >Sincerely E5

Built for $1400 sounds too high unless factoring in Windows XP, other
software, warranty, the floppy, optical drives, keyboard, mouse, speakers,
etc (of decent quality). Even then it sounds a little high.

Also beware of local vendors that use generic memory or low-end "comes
with case" generic power supply. If they want your business they'll be
honest and allow substitutions, not build with low-quality parts.

Most of the prices were noted previously from <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newegg.com" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com</a> or
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_blank">http://www.pricewatch.com</a> . When dealing with unknown vendors at
pricewatch.com be sure to check the customer reviews, ratings at
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.resellerratings.com" target="_blank">http://www.resellerratings.com</a> .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

Thanks Kony I will check into that! I have like I said, been going nuts with
this HP POS I run now... Not knocking it for what it can do though! Sadly I
think this old machine is worth hanging on to for photo editting, Internet
stuff and paperwork projects, but it is four years old here in another
month! As for the specs on the new system they read like this:

Hardware:
2) 120 Gig Hard Drives
1) Floppy Drive
ATI 9800 AIW
DVD ROM Drive
Pioneer DVR- A07 Dual Format DVD RW
2.4 (at least) Ghz Processor
1 Gig of Memory
at least 4 USB Ports
Ethernet Card
400 Watt PS or better

Software:
Windows XP
Pinnacle Systems Studio 9
Office Professional

The biggest price oddly enough is the AIW which I have experience with as I
said. In my situation though the old AIW 128 would drop frames during
recording at times and made me really wonder if there is a better piece of
hardware out there to capture with. Not to mention price wise it is almost
the most expensive hardware in this case at Newegg Price of $337 for
example. I could wait another six months surely and the price would come
down, but I still question the overall board in the area of performance.
Thanks again though, I will check on the prices as you have mentioned. Who
would you say has the best PS manufacted? I have an old full tower case that
is been gutted for this project, but the 250 Watt PS, just won't meet specs.
Also the case I currently place on using is a basic Generic computer show
cheapy. But I find it has room enough (and layout holes) to accept an ATX
form factor board which it is currently set up for.

Sincerely, E5

"kony" <spam DeleteThis @spam.com> wrote in message
news:u1s1801ado34to6apj3ph776n82gso0h24@4ax.com...
 > On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:05:22 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam DeleteThis @twcny.rr.com>
 > wrote:
 >
  > >Thank you!!! I will look into this! I talked to one "guy" locally that
says
  > >this system can be built for $1400 I found prices to be around $3500, if
I
  > >could get your sources please? Thanks again!
  > >
  > >Sincerely E5
 >
 > Built for $1400 sounds too high unless factoring in Windows XP, other
 > software, warranty, the floppy, optical drives, keyboard, mouse, speakers,
 > etc (of decent quality). Even then it sounds a little high.
 >
 > Also beware of local vendors that use generic memory or low-end "comes
 > with case" generic power supply. If they want your business they'll be
 > honest and allow substitutions, not build with low-quality parts.
 >
 > Most of the prices were noted previously from <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newegg.com" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com</a> or
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_blank">http://www.pricewatch.com</a> . When dealing with unknown vendors at
 > pricewatch.com be sure to check the customer reviews, ratings at
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.resellerratings.com" target="_blank">http://www.resellerratings.com</a> .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

While I have been working with this AIW 128 card I can't say it is totally
worthless. I just found that with the Toshiba DVD-RW and the AIW128 in my
WinME Machine I have a hardware conflict some where, that manifests itself
in the area of not allowing me to shut the system off. Further I found that
the ATI unit I currently own isn't supported by WinXP and the last time I
checked there is no updated drivers. Sad enough as my current system doesn't
have an AGP, and my current AIW is PCI supported. Also checking with HP I
have to spend $50 for a BIOS upgrade before I can even consider installing
WinXP in my current machine. But then the other hardware issues come into
play that isn't supported by XP either. As this will be pretty much the
first machine I have built, I am way too familiar with the parts as I am a
15 year electronics factory worker (I have been around this stuff too long,
LOL). I know there is limits to WinME, and my girlfriend's AMD/ WinXP unit
hammers stuff I could only dream of. But I know hers is a custom built piece
and works circles around my old system.

I do currently have a case which I gutted from an old custom built
Intel/Win98 system. I know the PS is out of there as 250 Watts just won't
run with the big dogs and the final system will be running WinXP. My biggest
concern as I say is the AIW as my system had problems with it. But don't
overlook that fact I had my cheap stand by the Pinnacle Systems Studio
Online (which is like 5 years old), the thing cost me $80 and I have never
had a problem with it. This capture device is connected through the USB port
and works better at analog capture then my AIW has ever. Though it has its
shortcomings too, such as it can't capture tv without it first being run
through the connected VCR and the picture becomes blotchy if the tape was
recorded at LP or EP modes. I am aware that the AIW 9800 series is sold only
as an AGP format too, which calls for my considering this build as I don't
currently have an AGP in my system now. But I do lack a little training in
what is the best products out there at the most reasonable prices to build
this system. While my current specs calls for two 120 gig Hard drives I may
scrap that plan for one 60 or 80 gig for my main drive and 120 or 200 gig
for my capture. My current system has allowed me to use a small 40 Gig WD
for capture up to 20 hours with a 30 gig Maxtor main for the OS, but I do
get blue screens and strange goings on after about 3 hours of video (Again
it has to be the NTFS file system problems). Thanks again though for the
heads up I know I have a little time before I put this HP out to pasture.
Though I will most likely hang on to it for the things it is able to do!

Sincerely, E5
"Toshi1873" <toshi1873.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1aea8c8a6a7ac548989859@news-50.giganews.com...
 > Your 800Mhz P3 should be fast enough to capture using
 > the AIW128 without dropping frames. Things to consider
 > are:
 >
 > - making sure you have enough memory
 > - disabling background proggies, or making sure that
 > your A/V software isn't trying to scan your capture
 > files (turn off A/V scanning for your capture folder, or
 > set the A/V to only scan selected file types instead of
 > everything)
 > - get a dedicated capture drive, hooked up to the second
 > IDE controller or a seperate PCI capture card
 > - use a codec like HuffYUV or PicVideo MJPEG at Q19 to
 > reduce the amount of raw data being captured at high
 > resolutions (MJPEG Q19 at 720x480 is around 3.5-4.0 MB/s
 > or 13-15GB/hr, raw video is much higher).
 >
 > In fact, other then encoding speeds, a P3 800 would make
 > a good dedicated capture box. Then just transfer the
 > files across the LAN to your fast gaming box to do CPU-
 > intensive stuff like encoding.
 >
 > However, the other strike against your P3 is that you're
 > running WinME instead of Win2K or WinXP. Since WinME
 > can't make use of the NTFS file system, you run into the
 > nasty 4Gb file limit. (NTFS is pretty much required if
 > you want to do video editing, without a lot of trouble.)
 > You might be able to get an OEM copy of WinXP for $135
 > or so, but you'd have to buy something like a hard drive
 > or motherboard with it. (Ask the retailer, e.g.
 > mwave.com, for the purchase requirement details.)
 >
 > ----
 >
 > OTOH, if you want to ditch the AIW128 as a capture
 > device (e.g. you don't want to deal with the A/V sync
 > issues). Look into going with either a set-top DVD
 > recorder (seriously simple) or a Canopus ADVC-100 box
 > that converts analog video into DV files (13GB/hr).
 >
 > ----
 >
 > All that being said, I use an AMD AthlonXP 2600+ system
 > with 1Gb DDR333 and a 5400rpm 160Gb WD drive along with
 > an $80 Hauppauge WinTV-dbx card and a Turtle Beach Santa
 > Cruz soundcard to do my captures (running WinXP). I
 > generally capture at 704x480 or 352x480 using MJPEG Q20
 > (8.0-9.0 MB/s at 704x480) with zero dropped frames.
 >
 > Downside is A/V sync for anything over 30 minutes at a
 > stretch (have to muck with the audio to make it fit
 > during post-production).
 >
 > If I wanted, I could probably build the box for myself
 > again pretty cheap ($40 CPU, $50 RAM, $50 motherboard,
 > $80 capture card, $80 soundcard, $50 video card, $50
 > case, $100 hard drive, $135 WinXP Pro = $635, plus
 > extras like a DVD writer for $125).
 >
 > In article <oCZfc.59258$M3.42245@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
 > jbaker7nospam.DeleteThis@twcny.rr.com says...
  > > Ok I am looking at purchasing a new computer here my old HP 800 Mhz
Intel P3
  > > isn't doing it! I want to edit serious video from analog to digital (aka
  > > make home made DVDs), currently I own a Toshiba DVD- RW (SD-r5002
model). My
  > > main problem is in the new system I have looked at ATI 9800 All In
Wonder
  > > Pro cards, is there a better way to capture the video? If so what
product
  > > can capture in real time without dropping out frames? I also currently
own
  > > Pinnacle Systems Studio 9 for editting and I love the GUI as it is easy
to
  > > understand and straight forward to operate. Further in my new system I
am
  > > considering upgrading to a Pioneer DVR- A07 for the dual format reasons
and
  > > the bragging rights!! LOL! I do have an ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 card
  > > currently but I find that is drops out frames during recording, and
further
  > > when installed with the DVD-RW in my HP I can't turn the system off
(some
  > > unknown hardware conflicit MS, BS is not picking up). BUT I am not
limited
  > > to capture by the ATI, as I also own a very outdated Pinnacle Systems
Studio
  > > Online (which usually works good), which uses a 1.0 Ver. USB connection.
  > > There are some that would argue that my lame ass Windows ME has a lot to
do
  > > with it, but that to me is just an excuse, as there is too much wrong
with
  > > Wintel to begin with (example Windows 95/ 486, I never found a problem).
I
  > > know more then I am letting on with computers, and not your normal lame
ass
  > > user. But I listen to logical, and realistic folks when they have a good
  > > point (in other words spammers don't bother repling). I also currently
own a
  > > Sony Digital Camcorder with S-Video output, another thought about my new
and
  > > old systems, I am currently running 512 megs of RAM (maxxed out) in my
  > > current system, but the new system I feel should be running at least 1
Gig
  > > of memory and with at least 2.4 Gig in Processor speed (if not better) I
  > > know that the Ati 9800 series card is the baddest with some of the big
guns,
  > > but I have a very limited budget also to consider! I would like to see
in
  > > short how many might consider builting the system outlined above as far
as
  > > price is an issue. In closing I feel that it could be built for around
$1000
  > > or less, provided that ease of use and OS understanding. Does anybody
out
  > > there understand me or am I just messing with things I can't understand
or
  > > control?
  > >
  > > Very Sincerely, E5
  > >
  > >
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:48:42 GMT, "E5I5O" <jbaker7nospam DeleteThis @twcny.rr.com>
wrote:

 >Thanks Kony I will check into that! I have like I said, been going nuts with
 >this HP POS I run now... Not knocking it for what it can do though! Sadly I
 >think this old machine is worth hanging on to for photo editting, Internet
 >stuff and paperwork projects, but it is four years old here in another
 >month! As for the specs on the new system they read like this:
 >
 >Hardware:
 >2) 120 Gig Hard Drives
 >1) Floppy Drive
 >ATI 9800 AIW
 >DVD ROM Drive
 >Pioneer DVR- A07 Dual Format DVD RW
 >2.4 (at least) Ghz Processor
 >1 Gig of Memory
 >at least 4 USB Ports
 >Ethernet Card
 >400 Watt PS or better
 >
 >Software:
 >Windows XP
 >Pinnacle Systems Studio 9
 >Office Professional
 >
 >The biggest price oddly enough is the AIW which I have experience with as I
 >said. In my situation though the old AIW 128 would drop frames during
 >recording at times and made me really wonder if there is a better piece of
 >hardware out there to capture with. Not to mention price wise it is almost
 >the most expensive hardware in this case at Newegg Price of $337 for
 >example. I could wait another six months surely and the price would come
 >down, but I still question the overall board in the area of performance.

There is no benefit to the AIW 9800 except 3D gaming. It won't capture
even the slightest bit better, with any less frame drop. That's a
function of the rest of the system.


 >Thanks again though, I will check on the prices as you have mentioned. Who
 >would you say has the best PS manufacted? I have an old full tower case that
 >is been gutted for this project, but the 250 Watt PS, just won't meet specs.

PC Power & Cooling are usually regarded as best, but carry a price premium
over other brands. It isn't so important to get what's "best" as to avoid
the low-end mislabeled generics. Often the generics fall so short of
their labeling you'd think they're breaking a few laws. Other respected
names include Sparkle/Fortron/Zalman, Delta, Antec, Seasonic or Enermax
(in slightly higher wattage rating than the others). That's not an
all-inclusive list though, you can research other makes.

 >Also the case I currently place on using is a basic Generic computer show
 >cheapy. But I find it has room enough (and layout holes) to accept an ATX
 >form factor board which it is currently set up for.

It may need modifications to improve airflow, as the average cheap generic
does.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

E5I5O wrote:

 > I have DMA enabled, but I can't install the ATI card as with the DVD and
 > the AIW it crashes my system and doesn't allow me to shut it off (which
 > has become too many Newsgroup conversations then I care to talk about) in
 > short I have a hardware conflicit nobody wants to answer for! So for now I
 > don't have the AIW installed and the DVD- RW is in the box!! Agreeing with
 > you fully it is in the system some place as I have been around computers
 > for 14 years now, but forget that for a moment! Pretend I am stupid in
 > that area....laughingly....I know that something is "up" with the system.
 > I can't install XP without a bunch of upgrades to my current POS HP on 512
 > of DIMM SDRAM.

There's the problem, HP box with XP etc. Just get a new mobo/chip/ram and I
bet you're problems will go away. Something like an asus P4P800 and a
2.8/800 chip with dual DDR ram should work fine. By bet is it isn't the ATI
card, it's the HP box that's the problem.
--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

E5I5O wrote:

 > Thanks Kony I will check into that! I have like I said, been going nuts
 > with this HP POS I run now... Not knocking it for what it can do though!
 > Sadly I think this old machine is worth hanging on to for photo editting,
 > Internet stuff and paperwork projects, but it is four years old here in
 > another month! As for the specs on the new system they read like this:
 >
 > Hardware:
 > 2) 120 Gig Hard Drives
 > 1) Floppy Drive
 > ATI 9800 AIW
 > DVD ROM Drive
 > Pioneer DVR- A07 Dual Format DVD RW
 > 2.4 (at least) Ghz Processor
 > 1 Gig of Memory
 > at least 4 USB Ports
 > Ethernet Card
 > 400 Watt PS or better
 >
 > Software:
 > Windows XP
 > Pinnacle Systems Studio 9
 > Office Professional
 >
 > The biggest price oddly enough is the AIW which I have experience with as
 > I said.

Forget that AIW card. Get something like a matrox that does quality 2D video
and then talk to the people in the video newsgroups about what card works
good for analog capture. As I said before the video card has nothing to do
with video editing and you're better off with a seperate card if you're
buying new.

--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:35:19 GMT, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote:



 >$120 Antec Sonata Case w/power supply
 >$180 P4 2.8GHz /800FSB Northwood (retail, w/heatsink)
 >$220 512MB PC3200 Memory (x 2, a pair of 'em, 1GB total)
 >$ 70 Basic Video card, cost rises steeply if 3D gaming is important
 >$0 Reuse optical drive, floppy, etc, etc, from HP.
 >$230 160GB Hard Drives, 2 of 'em, beneficial to have 2 for editing or RAID
 >$110 Motherboard, Intel 865 chipset
 >----------
 >$930

Excellent advice!

But what about a capture card kony?

Another "but" is E5 can save $70 by buying a good, strong, cool Enlight case
with an excellent Enlight power supply on board. Out of hundreds, not a
problem with stability, noise, or failure. The screw-less 5-1/4" bays are
very nice too.

Better snap up those Northwoods men. Those sweet overclocking 2.4c's are
already disappearing!

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Big Question for the group... About Video Editting