Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o..

"mike3" <mike4ty4 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:21fbf7db-9f69-4538-a553-b3ca61d52bae@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi.
>
> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due to
> the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one opened
> up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can get in
> trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of illegal
> opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of my life in
> prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And furthermore, would just
> 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even if I made it through the
> jail term? Are these worse or better than getting electrocuted?
>
> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing something
> dumb.

I hope there is no death sentence involved. ;<)
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

"mike3" <mike4ty4.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:21fbf7db-9f69-4538-a553-b3ca61d52bae@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi.
>
> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due to
> the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one opened
> up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can get in
> trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of illegal
> opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of my life in
> prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And furthermore, would just
> 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even if I made it through the
> jail term? Are these worse or better than getting electrocuted?
>
> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing something
> dumb.




I always open the supplies when the fan dies.
I have a whole box full of spare fans and cannot see tossing a PS just
because the fan dies.
The reason the caution label is on the supply is to keep people who do not
know what they are
doing from fooling around inside.
It's possible the capacitors could hold a charge and give someone a shock
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

"DaveW" <radiation DeleteThis @nuclear.org> wrote in message
news:ZKKdnYc6nrR1gyvanZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> It is not ILLEGAL to open a PSU, at least not in the USA. But it is
> UNWISE. The power capacitors inside store a lethal quantity of electricity
> in them long after the PSU is unplugged, and so you can kill yourself. (I
> suppose killing yourself could be viewed as illegal...)

Lethal? Maybe if you're wearing a ring and hanging onto a grounded point
with your other hand. Otherwise I have to disagree. The voltage may be high
but the total energy is unliikely to kill you unless you work hard at it.
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

mike3 <mike4ty4 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due
> to the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one
> opened up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can
> get in trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of
> illegal opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of
> my life in prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And
> furthermore, would just 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even
> if I made it through the jail term? Are these worse or better than
> getting electrocuted?
>
> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing
> something dumb.

Wow.
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

"John Doe" <jdoe RemoveThis @usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
news:bpntj.11349$Ej5.10586@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> mike3 <mike4ty4 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at
>> all due
>> to the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would
>> happen if one
>> opened up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that
>> one can
>> get in trouble with the law doing this (unless one has
>> the proper
>> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that
>> even if I
>> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10
>> counts of
>> illegal opening of a power supply unit), I could spend
>> the rest of
>> my life in prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And
>> furthermore, would just 1 count have _lifelong_
>> consequences, even
>> if I made it through the jail term? Are these worse or
>> better than
>> getting electrocuted?
>>
>> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on
>> doing
>> something dumb.
>
> Wow.

------------

I wonder which country he lives in? Whichever it is, I hope
I never go there. <G>

Ed Cregger
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

mike3 wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due to
> the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one opened
> up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can get in
> trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of illegal
> opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of my life in
> prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And furthermore, would just
> 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even if I made it through the
> jail term? Are these worse or better than getting electrocuted?
>
> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing something
> dumb.

Assuming for a minute you are being serious, I should be locked up for life
probably then!

SteveH
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

"SteveH" <steve.houghREMOVE DeleteThis @MEblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
news:UHntj.7919$XI.6536@text.news.virginmedia.com:

> mike3 wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due to
>> the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one opened
>> up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can get in
>> trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
>> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
>> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of
>> illegal opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of my
>> life in prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And furthermore,
>> would just 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even if I made it
>> through the jail term? Are these worse or better than getting
>> electrocuted?
>>
>> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing something
>> dumb.
>
> Assuming for a minute you are being serious, I should be locked up for
> life probably then!

Me too. Just call me Sparky.

--
pcbldrNinetyEight
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

>> It is not ILLEGAL to open a PSU, at least not in the USA. But it is
>> UNWISE. The power capacitors inside store a lethal quantity of electricity
>> in them long after the PSU is unplugged, and so you can kill yourself. (I
>> suppose killing yourself could be viewed as illegal...)
>
>Lethal? Maybe if you're wearing a ring and hanging onto a grounded point
>with your other hand. Otherwise I have to disagree. The voltage may be high
>but the total energy is unliikely to kill you unless you work hard at it.

If you open up the power supply for a CRT-based monitor or TV, the
high voltages (can be over a thousand volts) on some pretty hefty
capacitors can kill you even if it's unplugged. You still might
need to be fairly stupid to get killed, like grounding yourself.
But I think it is possible and has happened numerous times that
someone can kill themselves by accident.

And yes, I've survived getting zapped, not only with it unplugged,
but with it plugged in and operating and sticking in probes to
measure voltages. In older TVs, the power supply is not a separate
part sealed in a metal box. The high voltages aren't all in the
power supply, either. Use *one* hand and don't ground yourself.
If you don't need it to have power while you are working on it,
unplug it and let it sit for a while. Watch what you touch. And
if you don't know what you are doing, don't try it.

If you open up the power supply for a computer (motherboard, not
CRT monitor), which typically outputs voltages like 5 and 12 volts,
you're a lot safer. The *input* voltages are higher, but since
they are AC, any capacitors on the input side won't have much stored
charge after you unplug them. With it plugged in, there will be
higher voltages present. It's not a real good idea to stick your
fingers in a light socket, either. You don't worry about touching
both ends of a battery when picking it up, do you? The voltages are
low enough to not present a danger.

Sticking your tongue on a 9-volt battery may be unpleasant, but it
won't kill you. Connecting myself to a 12V car battery via jumper
cables in the process of jump-starting another car doesn't even
tingle if you have dry hands. (Warning: the ignition system has
much higher voltages. Do not hold on to spark plug wires while
cranking the engine).
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

"Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.0epwc DeleteThis @burditt.org> wrote in message
news:13rcf8nrkotnv29@corp.supernews.com...
>>> It is not ILLEGAL to open a PSU, at least not in the USA. But it is
>>> UNWISE. The power capacitors inside store a lethal quantity of
>>> electricity
>>> in them long after the PSU is unplugged, and so you can kill yourself.
>>> (I
>>> suppose killing yourself could be viewed as illegal...)
>>
>>Lethal? Maybe if you're wearing a ring and hanging onto a grounded point
>>with your other hand. Otherwise I have to disagree. The voltage may be
>>high
>>but the total energy is unliikely to kill you unless you work hard at it.
>
> If you open up the power supply for a CRT-based monitor or TV, the
> high voltages (can be over a thousand volts) on some pretty hefty
> capacitors can kill you even if it's unplugged. You still might
> need to be fairly stupid to get killed, like grounding yourself.
> But I think it is possible and has happened numerous times that
> someone can kill themselves by accident.

Over the past 45+ years I have replaced many dozens of TV picture tubes
i.e., CRTs, and have been zapped more than a couple of times (more in the
beginning, fewer in the mid-years and none in the latter stages : ) It
kicks like hell but far from killed me. I always removed my rings, etc. The
voltages IIRC are in the range of 15,000 volts but the amperage is quite
low. I wouldn't recommend that anybody mess around with such voltages but
I've yet to hear of anybody being killed although under extreme
circumstances I imagine one could -- ring on hand, bare feet in water, etc.
Think TASER gun; I suspect the voltages and amperages are on the same order.

Also the capacitors in a computer PSU are nowhere near the size of those in
TV high voltage supplies.



>
> And yes, I've survived getting zapped, not only with it unplugged,
> but with it plugged in and operating and sticking in probes to
> measure voltages. In older TVs, the power supply is not a separate
> part sealed in a metal box. The high voltages aren't all in the
> power supply, either. Use *one* hand and don't ground yourself.
> If you don't need it to have power while you are working on it,
> unplug it and let it sit for a while. Watch what you touch. And
> if you don't know what you are doing, don't try it.
>
> If you open up the power supply for a computer (motherboard, not
> CRT monitor), which typically outputs voltages like 5 and 12 volts,
> you're a lot safer. The *input* voltages are higher, but since
> they are AC, any capacitors on the input side won't have much stored
> charge after you unplug them. With it plugged in, there will be
> higher voltages present. It's not a real good idea to stick your
> fingers in a light socket, either. You don't worry about touching
> both ends of a battery when picking it up, do you? The voltages are
> low enough to not present a danger.
>
> Sticking your tongue on a 9-volt battery may be unpleasant, but it
> won't kill you. Connecting myself to a 12V car battery via jumper
> cables in the process of jump-starting another car doesn't even
> tingle if you have dry hands. (Warning: the ignition system has
> much higher voltages. Do not hold on to spark plug wires while
> cranking the engine).
>
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

On Feb 15, 4:26 pm, "DaveW" <radiat... DeleteThis @nuclear.org> wrote:
> It is not ILLEGAL to open a PSU, at least not in the USA. But it is UNWISE.
> The power capacitors inside store a lethal quantity of electricity in them
> long after the PSU is unplugged, and so you can kill yourself. (I suppose
> killing yourself could be viewed as illegal...)
>

Yeah, that's what I guessed, but I glanced over this, which was why I
asked:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt/msg/cb4d...b7145dd
" Working on high voltage equipment is always dangerous due to the
possibility
of fire and or electrocution. That's why its sealed with a warning and
that's why only those with the proper training should work on such
devices.
************* There's also a criminal and financial responsibility
involved. *************
So even if it doesn't seem like much the consequences can be
*tremendous*."

(emphases mine. Do the "tremendous" consequences include this alleged
"criminal" responsibility,
(not very tremendous compared to, well...) or are they referring to
the possibility of death (...that.)?)

Should've mentioned that in the post. Also, I heard that PSUs are
simply not meant to be
repaired, period, not even by a computer repair professional:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/safetyconsiderations/qt/safety_tips.htm

"Never Service the Non-Serviceable
When you come across labels that say "No serviceable components
inside" don't take it as a challenge.
Some parts of a computer are just not meant to be repaired,
********* even by most professional computer repair persons
********* .
You will usually see this warning on power supply units but you may
also see them on monitors, hard
drives, optical drives and other dangerous or highly sensitive
components."
(emphasis mine also.)

How accurate is any of this information I've been accruing?

(PS. I suppose the warning about hard drives only applies if you care
about the data on the drive, not,
for example, experimenting with an old junker that was acquired
specifically for that purpose.)
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

On Feb 15, 2:10 pm, mike3 <mike4....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Although I would not probably ever do this in reality at all due to
> the danger, I'd be curious as to know what would happen if one opened
> up a computer power supply unit. I've heard that one can get in
> trouble with the law doing this (unless one has the proper
> qualifications?). Is that right, and does this mean that even if I
> didn't get zapped, and did this enough times (say 10 counts of illegal
> opening of a power supply unit), I could spend the rest of my life in
> prison (maximum security prisons, too???)? And furthermore, would just
> 1 count have _lifelong_ consequences, even if I made it through the
> jail term? Are these worse or better than getting electrocuted?
>
> Just curiosity questions: I wasn't really planning on doing something
> dumb.

Ahhhhhhhhh...

...gottabeatrollgottabeatrollgottabeatroll...

Yes... It's Every Bit as ILLegal as Removing Tags From Pillows...

Naughtius "Do Not Remove Tag Under Penalty Of Law" Maximus
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

mike3 wrote:

> There's also a criminal and financial responsibility involved.

This refers to what happens if you repair an ATX PSU for your
friend. Your friend goes home, plugs in the computer, and
goes to bed. Later in the night, the supply catches fire.

Much later, the fire marshall and the insurance company, want to know
who modified/played with the supply.

Your friend's mom decides to sue, to help get money to rebuild the
house or pay for medical treatments for your friend. She has to
do something, after all, because the insurance was cancelled.

Even if you do stuff to your own power supply, you still
might run the risk of invalidating a fire insurance claim,
if the insurance company investigates and decides a change
to the PSU caused the fire.

Anything in the computer which is less likely to
catch fire, and burn down your house, has a lesser
risk associated with it. (For example, changing
sticks of RAM.)

Note that getting advice from USENET, you're going to
get lots of goofy, slightly off answers. Respondents
don't really care what happens to you. Remember
that, before you reach for that screwdriver...

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o.. 

richard wrote:

> In order for a capacitor to store 1 amp of power,

....one "amp" of power? That's a new one because power = volts x amps

> that capacitor would have to be about five times the size of your computer. At the least.

Only if your computer is the size of a pea.
 >> Stay informed about: Break the law by being a daredevil? (Curiosity questions o..