What Core 2 To Buy Now?

"Phil Weldon" <not.disclosed.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
news:13j7hk3joia6uab@corp.supernews.com...
> 'Bob Johnson' wrote:
> | The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews.
> Are
> | all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is it
> | luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the lack
> of
> | L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache
> would
> | be better in real world day to day use?
> |
> |
> | Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
> |
> |
> | I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio recording
> | (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
> _____
>
> Have you read any of the extensive posts in this newsgroup about........




Yes, and they all seem to OC well.




> overclocking Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs?
>
> A new series of 45 nm process Core 2 Duo CPUs will come out in less than a
> week.


And those would be....?

And what is there price/performance ratio?

I guess I should have said best bang for buck, price/performance, etc which
is what I meant.



bob




>
> I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. As your question reads, the
> answer is that a Core 2 Duo E4300 would perform better than a Core 2 Duo
> E2160.


Perform better meaning it will be faster w/ stock cooling?


>
> Phil Weldon
>
> "Bob Johnson" <me.DeleteThis@getlost.com> wrote in message
> news:MI6dnQ_v9NIUBa7anZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@comcast.com...
> | The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews.
> Are
> | all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is it
> | luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the lack
> of
> | L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache
> would
> | be better in real world day to day use?
> |
> |
> | Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
> |
> |
> | I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio recording
> | (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
> |
> |
> | thx
> |
> | bob
> |
> |
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Phil, FYI:

The QX9650 quad extreme is scheduled for release 11/12.

The rest of the non extreme 45nm quads and duo's (wolfdales) will be
released sometime in Janurary.

Nuke
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 21:34:47 -0400, "Phil Weldon"
<not.disclosed DeleteThis @example.com> wrote:

>'Bob Johnson' wrote:
>| The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews. Are
>| all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is it
>| luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the lack
>of
>| L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache would
>| be better in real world day to day use?
>|
>|
>| Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
>|
>|
>| I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio recording
>| (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
>_____
>
>Have you read any of the extensive posts in this newsgroup about
>overclocking Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs?
>
>A new series of 45 nm process Core 2 Duo CPUs will come out in less than a
>week.
>
>I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. As your question reads, the
>answer is that a Core 2 Duo E4300 would perform better than a Core 2 Duo
>E2160.
>
>Phil Weldon
>
>"Bob Johnson" <me DeleteThis @getlost.com> wrote in message
>news:MI6dnQ_v9NIUBa7anZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@comcast.com...
>| The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews. Are
>| all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is it
>| luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the lack
>of
>| L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache would
>| be better in real world day to day use?
>|
>|
>| Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
>|
>|
>| I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio recording
>| (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
>|
>|
>| thx
>|
>| bob
>|
>|
>
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

'Bob Johnson' wrote:
| And those would be....?
|
| And what is there price/performance ratio?
|
| I guess I should have said best bang for buck, price/performance, etc
which
| is what I meant.
_____

Bang for the buck? Price performance ratio? Not really meaningful questions
for a CPU in isolation from the applications, benefits of faster processing,
cost of the rest of the system (especially when you are considering only ONE
system.) These days a CPU can be the least expensive component in a new
system
You can easily spend
$150 -$200 US for a large capacity high quality power supply
$150 - $300 US for a high performance motherboard
$300 - $600 US for a high performance graphics card (or twice that for two).

All up a high performance (but not bleeding edge) system can cost $1000 US
exclusive of the CPU. At that point, doubling the cost of a CPU (say, from
a $135 E4300 to a $270 Q6600) adds only 12% to the system cost. If you
measure 'bang for the buck' against total system cost, then an overclocked
Core 2 Duo Q6600 quad wins. Or, if you wait a few months, then a Penryn 45
nm process CPU might be a better choice. Of course, the Nehalem CPUs coming
late in 2008 will require DDR3 memory and a new motherboard.

'Bang for the buck' and price/performance ratio are pretty useless measuring
sticks if the CPU isn't capable of handling the processing task in a
reasonable length of time.

Phil Weldon

"Bob Johnson" <me DeleteThis @getlost.com> wrote in message
news:G76dnSp0IO27Ua7anZ2dnUVZ_s6mnZ2d@comcast.com...
|
| "Phil Weldon" <not.disclosed DeleteThis @example.com> wrote in message
| news:13j7hk3joia6uab@corp.supernews.com...
| > 'Bob Johnson' wrote:
| > | The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews.
| > Are
| > | all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is
it
| > | luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the
lack
| > of
| > | L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache
| > would
| > | be better in real world day to day use?
| > |
| > |
| > | Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
| > |
| > |
| > | I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio
recording
| > | (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
| > _____
| >
| > Have you read any of the extensive posts in this newsgroup about........
|
|
|
|
| Yes, and they all seem to OC well.
|
|
|
|
| > overclocking Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs?
| >
| > A new series of 45 nm process Core 2 Duo CPUs will come out in less than
a
| > week.
|
|
| And those would be....?
|
| And what is there price/performance ratio?
|
| I guess I should have said best bang for buck, price/performance, etc
which
| is what I meant.
|
|
|
| bob
|
|
|
|
| >
| > I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. As your question reads, the
| > answer is that a Core 2 Duo E4300 would perform better than a Core 2 Duo
| > E2160.
|
|
| Perform better meaning it will be faster w/ stock cooling?
|
|
| >
| > Phil Weldon
| >
| > "Bob Johnson" <me DeleteThis @getlost.com> wrote in message
| > news:MI6dnQ_v9NIUBa7anZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@comcast.com...
| > | The C2 2160 looks like a dream according to Toms' and other reviews.
| > Are
| > | all samples going to OC to 3.0 w/ a good MB and stock cooling? Or is
it
| > | luck of the draw and getting a good "stepping"? My guru says the
lack
| > of
| > | L2 cache is a real big deal and that a slower speed but higher cache
| > would
| > | be better in real world day to day use?
| > |
| > |
| > | Is a 4300 or similiar going to be as good for a few bucks more?
| > |
| > |
| > | I'm not into much game playing but will be doing Digital audio
recording
| > | (Pro Tools, Sonar, etc) Ripping CD's, Burning DVD's if that matters.
| > |
| > |
| > | thx
| > |
| > | bob
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Phil Weldon wrote:
>> What is the best 4xxx chip to get now? Price/performance/ocing?
>>
>> Is your 3.2 @ stock cooling? What board?
> _____
>
> There is no ONE answer to "What is the best 4xxx chip to get now?
> Price/performance/ocing?" question.
>
> The overclockability varies from one CPU to another EVEN if the model
> number and stepping ARE THE SAME. Even if the each CPU is tested in
> the exact same system. There is no guarantee that a E4500 you
> purchase will have the same overclocking headroom as the E4500
> ~misfit~ has.

Good point. I seem to be lucky with silicon. Both my Barton and T'bred-B
were great OCers. And my Celeron Mendicinos, Coppermines and Tualatins.
Actually, it can't all be luck can it? <g> Actually, I know it can, I've
seen others not so lucky. I've been asked once or twice to reproduce my OCs
for others, on their machines and, despite spending lots of time on some,
haven't often been able to.

> Ambient room temperature can make or break an overclock. If the
> ambient room temperature is 20 C, then you will very likely be able
> to get a significantly higher overclock than if the room ambient
> temperature is 30 C.

I'm glad someone else considers this factor. I pretty much never hear
reference to it.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

>> Ambient room temperature can make or break an overclock. If the
>> ambient room temperature is 20 C, then you will very likely be able
>> to get a significantly higher overclock than if the room ambient
>> temperature is 30 C.
>
> I'm glad someone else considers this factor. I pretty much never hear
> reference to it.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Shaun.

It is something that those of us who have been doing this a long time
probably take as a given, but we should mention more often to the newer
folks starting into OCing. It is a very important point to mention.


ed
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Ed Medlin wrote:
>>> Ambient room temperature can make or break an overclock. If the
>>> ambient room temperature is 20 C, then you will very likely be able
>>> to get a significantly higher overclock than if the room ambient
>>> temperature is 30 C.
>>
>> I'm glad someone else considers this factor. I pretty much never hear
>> reference to it.
>
> It is something that those of us who have been doing this a long time
> probably take as a given, but we should mention more often to the
> newer folks starting into OCing. It is a very important point to
> mention.

Very true. For myself, I have a thermometer on my desk and all temps are
considered as ambient + xx° as well as an empirical figure. That way, I know
what the likely hottest temp I'm going to get in my office is and can
predict core temps in the worst-case scenarios. (No AC in my home, if we get
a heatwave I've been known to down-clock for the duration) Also I factor a
couple extra degrees leeway in for when the dust needs cleaning out of the
HS fins. <g>

Cheers,
--
Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Bob Johnson wrote:

> BTW, this is what prompted my post:
>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/12/pentium_dual_core/page6.html

The benchmarks look pretty good to me, despite what people are saying about
the lacking L2. The degree of overclock is definitely not a given. My particular
E4500 will not overclock as Shaun's.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Fishface wrote:
> Bob Johnson wrote:
>
>> BTW, this is what prompted my post:
>>
>> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/09/12/pentium_dual_core/page6.html
>
> The benchmarks look pretty good to me, despite what people are saying
> about the lacking L2. The degree of overclock is definitely not a given.
> My particular E4500 will not overclock as Shaun's.

Condolences. How high will it go? What mobo and cooler? (Also, I 'had' to
buy a more powerful PSU with a higher amperage CPU 12V rail).
--
TTFN,

Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

~misfit~ wrote:
> Condolences. How high will it go? What mobo and cooler? (Also, I 'had' to buy a more powerful PSU with a higher
> amperage CPU 12V rail).

I didn't screw around with it too much. I only went up to 1.35v vCore,
trying to get it to run at 266 x 11 on the motherboard it came bundled
with, basically for free from Fry's Electronics, an ECS 945GCT-M
( http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=2115910
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135051 ).
I had to use bits of aluminum foil aka BSEL mod to make it boot at 266. It
managed to install Windows XP, but as soon as I applied the full load
of Orthos, it would reboot. So, I applied more bits of aluminum foil to select
VID pins to get 1.35v, and it was stable for longer periods, like 10 minutes.
Since I was using a 20 pin power supply, which is optional with this
motherboard, I had to try a 24 pin supply (Antec NeoPower 500). No joy.
I tried it in a Gigabyte P35-DS3L, which I had already determined ignored
my vCore selection, so I knew to leave the aluminum foil intact. It was still
not stable. If it was going to happen, the 2.93 GHz should have been
possible with the 1.35v. A guy at work bought an E4300 and I could only
get it to 2.75 GHz.

I was using a Sunbeamtech Silent Whisper Cooler with a Thermalright
Bolt-thru adapter.
www.heatsinkfactory.com/sunbeam-silent-whisper-cpu-cooler-775-version-...6520.ht
www.heatsinkfactory.com/thermalright-lga775-bolt-thru-kit-p-16470.html
I didn't actually determine the maximum stable overclock, I was just
going for broke on the 266 x 11. I guess there is work yet to be done!
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Fishface wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Condolences. How high will it go? What mobo and cooler? (Also, I
>> 'had' to buy a more powerful PSU with a higher amperage CPU 12V
>> rail).
>
> I didn't screw around with it too much. I only went up to 1.35v
> vCore, trying to get it to run at 266 x 11 on the motherboard it came
> bundled
> with, basically for free from Fry's Electronics, an ECS 945GCT-M
> (
> http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=2115910
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135051 ). I had
> to use bits of aluminum foil aka BSEL mod to make it boot at
> 266. It managed to install Windows XP, but as soon as I applied the
> full load of Orthos, it would reboot. So, I applied more bits of aluminum
> foil
> to select VID pins to get 1.35v, and it was stable for longer
> periods, like 10 minutes. Since I was using a 20 pin power supply,
> which is optional with this motherboard, I had to try a 24 pin supply
> (Antec NeoPower 500). No joy. I tried it in a Gigabyte P35-DS3L, which I
> had already determined
> ignored my vCore selection, so I knew to leave the aluminum foil intact.
> It
> was still not stable. If it was going to happen, the 2.93 GHz should
> have been possible with the 1.35v. A guy at work bought an E4300 and I
> could
> only get it to 2.75 GHz.
>
> I was using a Sunbeamtech Silent Whisper Cooler with a Thermalright
> Bolt-thru adapter.
> www.heatsinkfactory.com/sunbeam-silent-whisper-cpu-cooler-775-version-...6520.ht
> www.heatsinkfactory.com/thermalright-lga775-bolt-thru-kit-p-16470.html

I wish I could find a local supplier of that bolt-thru adapter. I dislike
the push-clips on most socket 775 HSFs and this Thermaltake thing was tight
to get on... I'd be a lot more comfortable if it was bolted thru.

> I didn't actually determine the maximum stable overclock, I was just
> going for broke on the 266 x 11. I guess there is work yet to be
> done!

Hmmm, sounds like you've played around with it a bit. All the components
seem like they're good to me. However, as you say, there's work to be done.
I had my E4500 BSEL modded when I put it in this P35 mobo and it didn't do
well at all. I had to remove the BSEL mod to get it to run at anything
respectable. (I've never heard of using aluminum foil for it, interesting, I
used conductive paint, windscreen de-fogger repair.)

Never say die! Keep tinkering, you might find that you can get a good OC
yet.

Luck,
--
Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Thanks for all the good info.

To sum up my question for now, I would ask:

"What is the current cheapest Core 2 that has the best chance of reaching 3
ghz?"

thx


bob



"~misfit~" <misfitnz RemoveThis @yahoot.com.au> wrote in message
news:473aa548@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> Fishface wrote:
>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> Condolences. How high will it go? What mobo and cooler? (Also, I
>>> 'had' to buy a more powerful PSU with a higher amperage CPU 12V
>>> rail).
>>
>> I didn't screw around with it too much. I only went up to 1.35v
>> vCore, trying to get it to run at 266 x 11 on the motherboard it came
>> bundled
>> with, basically for free from Fry's Electronics, an ECS 945GCT-M
>> (
>> http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=2115910
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135051 ). I had
>> to use bits of aluminum foil aka BSEL mod to make it boot at
>> 266. It managed to install Windows XP, but as soon as I applied the
>> full load of Orthos, it would reboot. So, I applied more bits of
>> aluminum foil
>> to select VID pins to get 1.35v, and it was stable for longer
>> periods, like 10 minutes. Since I was using a 20 pin power supply,
>> which is optional with this motherboard, I had to try a 24 pin supply
>> (Antec NeoPower 500). No joy. I tried it in a Gigabyte P35-DS3L, which I
>> had already determined
>> ignored my vCore selection, so I knew to leave the aluminum foil intact.
>> It
>> was still not stable. If it was going to happen, the 2.93 GHz should
>> have been possible with the 1.35v. A guy at work bought an E4300 and I
>> could
>> only get it to 2.75 GHz.
>>
>> I was using a Sunbeamtech Silent Whisper Cooler with a Thermalright
>> Bolt-thru adapter.
>> www.heatsinkfactory.com/sunbeam-silent-whisper-cpu-cooler-775-version-...6520.ht
>> www.heatsinkfactory.com/thermalright-lga775-bolt-thru-kit-p-16470.html
>
> I wish I could find a local supplier of that bolt-thru adapter. I dislike
> the push-clips on most socket 775 HSFs and this Thermaltake thing was
> tight to get on... I'd be a lot more comfortable if it was bolted thru.
>
>> I didn't actually determine the maximum stable overclock, I was just
>> going for broke on the 266 x 11. I guess there is work yet to be
>> done!
>
> Hmmm, sounds like you've played around with it a bit. All the components
> seem like they're good to me. However, as you say, there's work to be
> done. I had my E4500 BSEL modded when I put it in this P35 mobo and it
> didn't do well at all. I had to remove the BSEL mod to get it to run at
> anything respectable. (I've never heard of using aluminum foil for it,
> interesting, I used conductive paint, windscreen de-fogger repair.)
>
> Never say die! Keep tinkering, you might find that you can get a good OC
> yet.
>
> Luck,
> --
> Shaun.
>
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

Bob Johnson wrote:
> Thanks for all the good info.
>
> To sum up my question for now, I would ask:
>
> "What is the current cheapest Core 2 that has the best chance of
> reaching 3 ghz?"

You are asking for two things that don't necessarily go together.

That said, with budget constraints and good mobo I'd personally go for an
E4500. (Actually, I *did*)

You don't get much more budget-restricted than being an invalid on welfare.
Yet I still didn't get a 2160 or it's ilk.
--
TTFN,

Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now? 

~misfit~ wrote:
> That said, with budget constraints and good mobo I'd personally go for an E4500. (Actually, I *did*)
>
> You don't get much more budget-restricted than being an invalid on welfare. Yet I still didn't get a 2160 or it's ilk.

Heh, heh! I just ordered an E2160 to play around with. When I'm done, I'll
give my mom an upgrade with the board that came with my Q6600, another
ECS with a SIS chipset with a single channel memory controller. Now that
would have been a waste for the quad core.
 >> Stay informed about: What Core 2 To Buy Now?