Questions about DDR RAM

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:31:38 -0400, Igor
<donotreply.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote:

>I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR up
>to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>
>333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's market,
>and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
>which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz DDR
>RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to 333
>MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as the
>slower PC2700 RAM?

Yes it'll work and do so as well/fast as PC2700, providing
it has timings spec'd at least as (Low) fast as the PC2700
module had. This is not a large difference in performance
though so a random suggestion would be to get a CAS2.5 @ 2.5
or 2.6V spec'd part.


>
>I've gotten conflicting answers to this question. Two computer stores told
>me that it wouldn't work. Another store and a book I consulted said it
>would.

Avoid those two computer stores from now on when seeking
advice, or at least the particular techs you spoke with as
PC3200 is always backwards compatible. It's the same memory
only the maxium speed the PC3200 is guaranteed to be able to
run stabily is higher, and the prom on the module is
programmed with timings to validate this if/when a
motherboard checks to see what the memory can do.


>
>I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
>and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
>of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
>marginally cheaper.

Which country do you reside in? Often buying online is
cheaper unless there's a particularly good sale or rebate
ongoing. Kingston's valueram tends to be lower spec, many
other name brand modules are better or cheaper for the same
specifications.


>
>Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
>same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM? If so, would
>using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster RAM?

The two could run in single channel mode, which would be the
mode it was in currently. Some motherboard chipsets can run
dual channel mode for a performance increase (which varies
from very little to a fair amount) and some of these require
two of same size and compatible timings, modules. Some only
require two modules with compatible timings but need not be
the same size (would then support dual channel mode only up
to the amount of memory of the smallest module total on one
channel, times 2). nForce 2 is an example of such a chipset
that can do this, though unless using integrated video the
performance gain from dual channel mode is minimal.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

Igor wrote:
>
> I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports
> "DDR up to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>
> 333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's
> market, and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive
> than the DDR which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if
> I bought 400 MHz DDR RAM and installed it in a motherboard which
> only supports speeds up to 333 MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it
> did work, would it work as well as the slower PC2700 RAM?
>
> I've gotten conflicting answers to this question. Two computer
> stores told me that it wouldn't work. Another store and a book I
> consulted said it would.

The faster stuff is just fine. The stores want to unload their old
stock, or are completely lacking in knowledge. Take your pick.
But, if the MB can handle it, ensure you get ECC capable memory.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Oct 2, 10:31 pm, Igor <donotre....TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
> I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR up
> to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>
> 333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's market,
> and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
> which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz DDR
> RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to 333
> MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as the
> slower PC2700 RAM?
>
> I've gotten conflicting answers to this question. Two computer stores told
> me that it wouldn't work. Another store and a book I consulted said it
> would.
>

I don't understand this. You went into stores asking?!!!! You
consulted books?!!!

This is such an obvious question to ask. Lots of people have asked it
on usenet.

Didn't you think to search usenet?

you're concerned about price and asking on the internet, and it didn't
occur, or you lacked the confidence, to buy on the internet?!

> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
> marginally cheaper.
>

GOOD MAKES OF RAM
this is an obvious search. You can read books but you can't use
google?!!!!
Kingston and Crucial are good makes. I seem to recall somebody here
saying one wasn't so good, but they work for most people. Don't get a
bad or unknown or unlabelled make / unbranded ram.


> Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
> same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM?


you mean at the same time?
i'd try it. it's unlikely that the mbrd wouldn't like it, and even
then, it's unlikely that it'd smoke out.

> If so, would
> using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster RAM?
>

I vaguely recall that they'd run at the slower speed. .

> (Note: I'm using a bogus reply-to address to avoid spam, so please don't
> reply by email.)

You know about spam, so learn how to search usenet. Your behaviour
doesn't seem logical. What kind of justification do you have?!
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

Igor wrote:

> I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR up
> to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>
> 333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's market,
> and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
> which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz DDR
> RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to 333
> MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as the
> slower PC2700 RAM?

The only time a good PC3200 module didn't work with one of my slower
mobos was when I set the mobo's BIOS to use the "safe" default
timings. That caused an ECS K7S5A Pro (max memory speed: 266 MHz) to
not boot and show only a completely blank screen.

> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
> marginally cheaper.

I'd get Samsung because Samsung is a real RAM chip manufacturer while
Kingston just buys chips or silicon wafers from other companies and
doesn't seem to test them very thoroughly. About 20-30% of the
Kingstons I've tried were troublesome, with a whopping 8 out of 11-12
PC3200 512MB Kingston ValueRAMs failing. OTOH all 5 PC3200 512MB PNY
modules worked fine, even when overclocked (I don't normally
overclock). I strongly recommend testing each module overnight with
both MemTest86 AND Gold Memory.

> Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
> same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM?

I was able to run a 256MB PC2100 and 512MB PC3200 together in a mobo
that supported 400 MHz. I don't know what happened to the timings of
the faster RAM.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul <nospam RemoveThis @needed.com> wrote:

<snip>

>
> If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.

I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary questions,
or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
make everything more complicated than it needs to be?
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 00:15:59 -0400, jameshanley39 DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk
<jameshanley39 DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On Oct 2, 10:31 pm, Igor <donotre... DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>> I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR
>> up
>> to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>>
>> 333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's
>> market,
>> and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
>> which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz
>> DDR
>> RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to
>> 333
>> MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as
>> the
>> slower PC2700 RAM?
>>
>> I've gotten conflicting answers to this question. Two computer stores
>> told
>> me that it wouldn't work. Another store and a book I consulted said it
>> would.
>>
>
> I don't understand this. You went into stores asking?!!!! You
> consulted books?!!!
>
> This is such an obvious question to ask. Lots of people have asked it
> on usenet.
>
> Didn't you think to search usenet?
>
> you're concerned about price and asking on the internet, and it didn't
> occur, or you lacked the confidence, to buy on the internet?!
>
>> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
>> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
>> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
>> marginally cheaper.
>>
>
> GOOD MAKES OF RAM
> this is an obvious search. You can read books but you can't use
> google?!!!!
> Kingston and Crucial are good makes. I seem to recall somebody here
> saying one wasn't so good, but they work for most people. Don't get a
> bad or unknown or unlabelled make / unbranded ram.
>
>
>> Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
>> same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM?
>
>
> you mean at the same time?
> i'd try it. it's unlikely that the mbrd wouldn't like it, and even
> then, it's unlikely that it'd smoke out.
>
>> If so, would
>> using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster RAM?
>>
>
> I vaguely recall that they'd run at the slower speed. .
>
>> (Note: I'm using a bogus reply-to address to avoid spam, so please don't
>> reply by email.)
>
> You know about spam, so learn how to search usenet. Your behaviour
> doesn't seem logical. What kind of justification do you have?!
>
>
>
>

If you don't have anything intelligent to say, it's better that you don't
say anything at all.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:38:51 -0400, kony <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> wrote:

<snip>

>
>>
>> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
>> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
>> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
>> marginally cheaper.
>
> Which country do you reside in? Often buying online is
> cheaper unless there's a particularly good sale or rebate
> ongoing. Kingston's valueram tends to be lower spec, many
> other name brand modules are better or cheaper for the same
> specifications.
>
>

I live in Canada. Which Internet-based retailers would you recommend?

The more popular mailorder places in the U.S. won't ship to Canada, most
likely due to import/export restrictions.

I don't like eBay for a variety of reasons and will not do business
through them.

I looked at the prices at tigerdirect.ca and didn't find them to be
appreciably better than the computer stores in my neighbourhood (a $3 or
$4 difference, not counting shipping). Frankly, for such small potential
savings, I prefer the convenience of buying locally.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:32:30 -0400, CBFalconer <cbfalconer DeleteThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

<snip>

> But, if the MB can handle it, ensure you get ECC capable memory.
>

My motherboard's manual doesn't say anything about supporting ECC, so I'll
assume that it doesn't.

However, I plan on putting together a PC from scratch in the near future,
so perhaps ECC support is something I should be looking for in a
motherboard.

In a nutshell, why is ECC capable memory more desirable?
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:48:44 -0400, larry moe 'n curly
<larrymoencurly.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:

>
> Igor wrote:
>
>> I'm planning to add some memory to a PC. The motherboard supports "DDR
>> up
>> to 333 MHz (enhanced) memory bus."
>>
>> 333 MHz (PC2700) or slower DDR SDRAM isn't easy to find on today's
>> market,
>> and when you do find it, it's considerably more expensive than the DDR
>> which runs at 400 MHz (PC3200). What would happen if I bought 400 MHz
>> DDR
>> RAM and installed it in a motherboard which only supports speeds up to
>> 333
>> MHz (PC2700)? Would it work? If it did work, would it work as well as
>> the
>> slower PC2700 RAM?
>
> The only time a good PC3200 module didn't work with one of my slower
> mobos was when I set the mobo's BIOS to use the "safe" default
> timings. That caused an ECS K7S5A Pro (max memory speed: 266 MHz) to
> not boot and show only a completely blank screen.
>

That's good to know, as the motherboard I'm dealing with is also an ECS.

>> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
>> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
>> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
>> marginally cheaper.
>
> I'd get Samsung because Samsung is a real RAM chip manufacturer while
> Kingston just buys chips or silicon wafers from other companies and
> doesn't seem to test them very thoroughly. About 20-30% of the
> Kingstons I've tried were troublesome, with a whopping 8 out of 11-12
> PC3200 512MB Kingston ValueRAMs failing. OTOH all 5 PC3200 512MB PNY
> modules worked fine, even when overclocked (I don't normally
> overclock). I strongly recommend testing each module overnight with
> both MemTest86 AND Gold Memory.
>

Thanks for your opinion, and even better, for backing it up with something
more than "I'm using brand X because that's what everyone says is the
best."

I'm not familiar with the programs you mention but I will do a search for
them.

I'll follow your recommendation, and make sure I can return the memory if
it fails.

>> Finally, would a 128 MB stick of 266 MHz DDR RAM be able to run in the
>> same computer as, say, a 512 MB stick of 400 MHz DDR RAM?
>
> I was able to run a 256MB PC2100 and 512MB PC3200 together in a mobo
> that supported 400 MHz. I don't know what happened to the timings of
> the faster RAM.
>

I guess I'll just have to try it and see
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
<donotreply.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul <nospam.RemoveThis@needed.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.
>
>I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary questions,
>or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
>They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
>make everything more complicated than it needs to be?


Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
to specific hardware.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

Igor wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:38:51 -0400, kony <spam.RemoveThis@spam.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>>>
>>> I'd also like some opinions on which brand of RAM I should get. Kingston
>>> and Samsung are ubiquitous where I live, so the choice comes down to one
>>> of those. Both brands are about the same price, with the Samsung being
>>> marginally cheaper.
>>
>> Which country do you reside in? Often buying online is
>> cheaper unless there's a particularly good sale or rebate
>> ongoing. Kingston's valueram tends to be lower spec, many
>> other name brand modules are better or cheaper for the same
>> specifications.
>>
>>
>
> I live in Canada. Which Internet-based retailers would you recommend?
>
> The more popular mailorder places in the U.S. won't ship to Canada, most
> likely due to import/export restrictions.
>
> I don't like eBay for a variety of reasons and will not do business
> through them.
>
> I looked at the prices at tigerdirect.ca and didn't find them to be
> appreciably better than the computer stores in my neighbourhood (a $3 or
> $4 difference, not counting shipping). Frankly, for such small potential
> savings, I prefer the convenience of buying locally.

After some good local retailers went bankrupt, I switched to NCIX in B.C.
Otherwise, there aren't a lot of Canadian options. The last time I ordered
from them, they used DHL for shipping, and they're OK.

Note that Canadians always charge a premium, so if you want deals, head
to the U.S. Yes, it is frustrating finding someone who ships to Canada,
which is why I went with NCIX.

You could also check Zipzoomfly.com in the U.S. and check if they still
ship to Canada. I never did complete a purchase with them, because I
wanted something the size of a computer case, and when we got into
details about shipping, their shipping method ended up being twice
as expensive as it should have been.

Due to the brokerage scams the shippers use in crossing the border,
you may find a deal in the States, isn't quite the deal you expected.
But because you cannot pick the shipper when you deal in the States,
sometimes you just have to take the brokerage scam like a man.
(This is one reason I cannot do business with anyone who uses UPS.)
A cost of doing business, as it were. If the order is big enough, you
might still come out ahead.

If you look at processor pricing, there can be a world of difference
between Canadian prices and U.S., in which case you won't dwell on the
NCIX page for very long.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:44:03 -0400, kony <spam DeleteThis @spam.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:54:49 -0400, Igor
> <donotreply DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:50:59 -0400, Paul <nospam DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>
>>> If you tell us the motherboard make and model, we give better advice.
>>
>> I don't see how that information is relevant to my two primary
>> questions,
>> or even why it would be necessary to venture an answer to the third.
>> They're pretty general questions. Are you one of those guys who likes to
>> make everything more complicated than it needs to be?
>
>
> Paul does a good job of answering questions and posing
> details of variables that may matter. Sometimes the rest of
> us just make assumptions instead of putting forth as much
> effort. His point was good, that providing details of your
> hardware is a good idea, it allows a reply more applicable
> to specific hardware.

I didn't mean to jump on Paul, I'm sure he's a friendly and knowledgeable
guy, but why did he assume that I had wanted that level of detail in a
response?

If I had wanted a specific, tailor-made reply, I would've provided the
details of my hardware. In this case, I just wanted a simple reply, so I
didn't feel the need to provide such details.

I found the insinuation that I *should have* provided the make and model
of my motherboard, that not doing so was an oversight on my part, and that
my questions couldn't be properly answered as I had posed them, just a bit
patronizing.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM 

Somewhere on the interweb "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk" typed:
> On Oct 2, 10:31 pm, Igor <donotre....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip a lot of angry, little-man-syndrome words>

> > If so, would
> > using both at the same time degrade the performance of the faster
> > RAM?
> >
>
> I vaguely recall that they'd run at the slower speed. .

Your vague recollections are of little use to someone asking for facts.

> > (Note: I'm using a bogus reply-to address to avoid spam, so please
> > don't reply by email.)
>
> You know about spam, so learn how to search usenet. Your behaviour
> doesn't seem logical. What kind of justification do you have?!

And yours seems agressive and antagonistic. What's your justification? On
second thoughts, just go away.
--
TTFN

Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about DDR RAM