Dvorak minus the effort

sfdphdj wrote:
 > I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
 > wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
 > transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
 > from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
 > to 37%.
 >

Interesting idea. But the dvorak layout and especially more modern
layouts don't just optimise the statistic but heavily improve the
ergonomic use of typical bigrams, e.g. two following characters. So the
"en" for example is a very common bigram and there are a lot other
bigrams that you should include in that layout.

I think, if you remap your finger on a new layout, it's almost the same
if you remap only four fingers or if you remap all. So if you do that
work, do it right, don't stop on half the way, it's worth it.
That are my two cents on this.

Greetings Hanno<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Interesting point. It would be useful to see a chart of the most
common bigrams and trigrams and their perecentage of text. Ultimately
the criterion will be subjective as even the mighty Dvorak shows only a
modest 5% increase in speed. No keyboard is a magic bullet as practice
is what produces the biggest gain in productivity.
I disagree with your assesment that putting asETNIl on the home row
will prove as difficult to master as Dvorak, Maltron or Neo. It is a
half measure, but the increase of text under the four fingers is almost
500%. And keeping the letters under the same fingers requires no
chart, just the inhibition of the urge to lift the fingers for etni.

Kjfdrdsfkjg pokjf. Kf woule bd usdtul fo sdd a charf ot fhd mosf
commoj bkgrams and frkgrams aje fhdkr pdrdcdjfagd ot fdxf.
Ulfkmafdly fhd crkfdrkoj wkll bd subjdcfkvd as dvdj fhd mkghfy Evorai
shows only a moedsf 5% kjcrdasd kj spdde. Jo idyboare ks a magkc
bulldf as pracfkcd ks whaf proeucds fhd bkggdsf gakj kj proeucfkvkfy.
K eksagrdd wkfh your assdsmdjf fhaf puffkjg asDFJKl oj fhd homd row
wkll provd as ekttkculf fo masfdr as Evorai, Malfroj or Jdo. Kf ks a
halt mdasurd, buf fhd kjcrdasd ot fdxf unedr fhd tour tkjgdrs ks almosf
500%. Ane iddpkjg fhd ldffdrs ujedr fhd samd tkjgdrs rdqukrds jo
charf, nusf fhd kjhkbkfkoj ot fhd urgd fo lktf fhd tkjgdrs tor dfjk.

If you still have a qwerty keyboard around, perhaps you could write a
few lines in 'Neo'.
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

sfdphdj <skearney.DeleteThis@accessbee.com> wrote:
 > I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
 > wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
 > transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
 > from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
 > to 37%.

but at that point you have a "custom" personal keyboard layout.. I wanted
something that was already out there, I'm an engineer I didn't have time
to do the research etc. Dvorak is on most all computers and I know where
to find it and convert just about any computer to Dvorak in
seconds. (sometimes I even switch it back when done)

I am sure each individual person I am sure would have a personal
preferance for keyboard layout,. German is easy, I have to also use
Japanese, now design an ergometric keyboard for the kanji

Bob



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 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Mark. <mark_in_winnipeg RemoveThis @gawab.com> wrote in message news:<sda7p0h5ml6lnkf5tcb1636t9uokrpfqnj RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
 > How to "remap"?
 >
  > >I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
  > >wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
  > >transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
  > >from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
  > >to 37%.

There is a Keyboard Layout Creator, msklc, program availiable from
ms. You will have to give a 25 character validation code for your xp.
I typed in the one on the bottom of this computer but it was called
invalid. Softpedia offers it, but you may have to overide some
firewall features.
I have read that the touchstream gesture functions are rated
highly, but without feedback and surface features the keyboard is
difficult to use. Kinesis, comfort and goldtouch have more
conventional keys.

asetnil<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Access Systems <accessys DeleteThis @smart.net> wrote in message news:<10p7nbe4bo7bn1a DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>...
 > sfdphdj <skearney DeleteThis @accessbee.com> wrote:
  > > I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
  > > wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
  > > transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
  > > from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
  > > to 37%.
 >
 > but at that point you have a "custom" personal keyboard layout.. I wanted
 > something that was already out there, I'm an engineer I didn't have time
 > to do the research etc. Dvorak is on most all computers and I know where
 > to find it and convert just about any computer to Dvorak in
 > seconds. (sometimes I even switch it back when done)
 >
 > I am sure each individual person I am sure would have a personal
 > preferance for keyboard layout,. German is easy, I have to also use
 > Japanese, now design an ergometric keyboard for the kanji
 >
 > Bob
 >
 >
Actually, I'm sure most individuals would have a preference for an
efficient keyboard layout. The Dvorak is the gold standard and it
should have become the accepted standard. The metric system should be
standard. Maybe by cutting a few corners, like using three
decimeters, a 'tred' as a stand in for the foot, half a kilogram, the
'lug', for the pound and four liters, a 'foul', for the gallon, we
could reach that goal sooner.
'I'm a unitarian, I didn't have time to study the liturgy etc.'
That's the spirit. I want to save time and effort. How can I put
the most common letters under my fingers with the least change to what
I already know. It's a band aid solution. It's not for everyone, but
for the few who might want it, it should be provided as an option the
same way the Dvorak is.

Sfdphdj<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Hanno Behrens <Hanno.Behrens.DeleteThis@gmx.de> wrote in message news:<2vhdhqF2m3m9cU1.DeleteThis@uni-berlin.de>...
 > sfdphdj wrote:
  > > I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
  > > wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
  > > transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
  > > from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
  > > to 37%.
  > >
 >
 > Interesting idea. But the dvorak layout and especially more modern
 > layouts don't just optimise the statistic but heavily improve the
 > ergonomic use of typical bigrams, e.g. two following characters. So the
 > "en" for example is a very common bigram and there are a lot other
 > bigrams that you should include in that layout.
 >
 > I think, if you remap your finger on a new layout, it's almost the same
 > if you remap only four fingers or if you remap all. So if you do that
 > work, do it right, don't stop on half the way, it's worth it.
 > That are my two cents on this.
 >
 > Greetings Hanno


(I wrote this last night but it did not post.)

Interesting point. It would be useful to see a chart of the most
common bigrams and trigrams and their perecentage of text. Ultimately
the criterion will be subjective as even the mighty Dvorak shows only
a modest 5% increase in speed. No keyboard is a magic bullet as
practice is what produces the biggest gain in productivity.
I disagree with your assesment that putting asETNIl on the home row
will prove as difficult to master as Dvorak, Maltron or Neo. It is a
half measure, but the increase of text under the four fingers is
almost 500%. And keeping the letters under the same fingers requires
no chart, just the inhibition of the urge to lift the fingers for
etni.

Kjfdrdsfkjg pokjf. Kf woule bd usdtul fo sdd a charf ot fhd mosf
commoj bkgrams and frkgrams aje fhdkr pdrdcdjfagd ot fdxf. Ulfkmafdly
fhd crkfdrkoj wkll bd subjdcfkvd as dvdj fhd mkghfy Evorai shows only
a moedsf 5% kjcrdasd kj spdde. Jo idyboare ks a magkc bulldf as
pracfkcd ks whaf proeucds fhd bkggdsf gakj kj proeucfkvkfy.
K eksagrdd wkfh your assdsmdjf fhaf puffkjg asDFJKl oj fhd homd row
wkll provd as ekttkculf fo masfdr as Evorai, Malfroj or Jdo. Kf ks a
halt mdasurd, buf fhd kjcrdasd ot fdxf unedr fhd tour tkjgdrs ks
almosf 500%. Ane iddpkjg fhd ldffdrs ujedr fhd samd tkjgdrs rdqukrds
jo charf, nusf fhd kjhkbkfkoj ot fhd urgd fo lktf fhd tkjgdrs tor
dfjk.

If you still have a qwerty keyboard around, perhaps you could write a
few lines in 'Neo'.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Asetnil wrote:
 > There is a Keyboard Layout Creator, msklc, program availiable from
 > ms. You will have to give a 25 character validation code for your xp.
 > I typed in the one on the bottom of this computer but it was called
 > invalid. Softpedia offers it, but you may have to overide some
 > firewall features.

Thanks alot! I got that tool without typing in any WinXP-Key. You just
have to ignore that and you can download that tool. Maybe next week I
will post the NEO-Driver for XP on my page. I will also post that here.

I hope I have that new Linux-Driver online, too and should work on a
linux-console driver after that. The Linux-driver is still KDE only.

Thanks Hanno

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 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

   >> >I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
   >> >wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
   >> >transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
   >> >from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
   >> >to 37%.

  >> How to "remap"?

 > There is a Keyboard Layout Creator, msklc, program availiable from
 > ms. You will have to give a 25 character validation code for your xp.
 > I typed in the one on the bottom of this computer but it was called
 > invalid. Softpedia offers it, but you may have to overide some
 > firewall features.
 > I have read that the touchstream gesture functions are rated
 > highly, but without feedback and surface features the keyboard is
 > difficult to use. Kinesis, comfort and goldtouch have more
 > conventional keys.

What do you mean by "feedback" and "surface features"?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

With a conventional keyboard there is key travel, which lets you
know you've entered a character or function. On the touchstream the
area with the 'keys' under the left hand is also the touch surface for
the gesture functions. I've read testimonials that as a keyboard it is
prone to errors. It's only ergonomic feature is the separation between
left and right. The zero force entry can be called zero feedback. The
'keys are defined visually, not by touch. The surface is like that of
a microwave capacitance keyboard.
You might google up kinesis, mykey, gold touch, safe type, or
darwin smart board, to name a few.
Good luck, and keep us apprised of your progress.
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

I meant to refer to the gesture functions as being under the right
hand.
Its more than merging, like a touchpad does. The GUI is partially
replaced by gestures rather than travel and click, like opening a file
with a clockwise rotation. Some users think its worth the tradeoff.
It will be difficult to determine if typing problems are the result of
the Dvorak layout or the keyboard, so you should probably take one
revolution at a time. If you don't type more than three or four pages
of text a day, the ergonomic benifits of the Dvorak may not be worth
it.
I hope you get some time on a touchstream before you buy.
That said, I'm very interested in how practical you find it to be.
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

What attracted me initially is the merging of mouse functions to the
keyboard. I hate the fact that my right hand is constantly jumping
from keyboard to mouse. There's got to be a better way.

 >With a conventional keyboard there is key travel, which lets you
 >know you've entered a character or function. On the touchstream the
 >area with the 'keys' under the left hand is also the touch surface for
 >the gesture functions. I've read testimonials that as a keyboard it is
 >prone to errors. It's only ergonomic feature is the separation between
 >left and right. The zero force entry can be called zero feedback. The
 >'keys are defined visually, not by touch. The surface is like that of
 >a microwave capacitance keyboard.
 >You might google up kinesis, mykey, gold touch, safe type, or
 >darwin smart board, to name a few.
 >Good luck, and keep us apprised of your progress.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

This time I was able to get msklc without registering, apparently
they've just changed the rules. Have you been able to get netframework
1.1. Only the distributed version seems to be accessible. It will
take awhile to load over the phone line. Let me know if you get your
keyboard to work.
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort 

Access Systems <accessys RemoveThis @smart.net> wrote in message news:<10p7nbe4bo7bn1a RemoveThis @corp.supernews.com>...
 > sfdphdj <skearney RemoveThis @accessbee.com> wrote:
  > > I was writing a response to 'Dvorak: How long to convert?'. Just
  > > wanted to suggest to Mark that he try remapping his keyboard
  > > transposing dfjk with etni. This increases the amount of text typed
  > > from these four rest keys, of the index and middle fingers, from 7.5%
  > > to 37%.
 >
 > but at that point you have a "custom" personal keyboard layout.. I wanted
 > something that was already out there, I'm an engineer I didn't have time
 > to do the research etc. Dvorak is on most all computers and I know where
 > to find it and convert just about any computer to Dvorak in
 > seconds. (sometimes I even switch it back when done)
 >
 > I am sure each individual person I am sure would have a personal
 > preferance for keyboard layout,. German is easy, I have to also use
 > Japanese, now design an ergometric keyboard for the kanji
 >
 > Bob


Sorry about the post in urban transit. It is a generally
courteous group. I posted there so that I can call up the group with
'asetnil', I hadn't posted there under that moniker before. Also,
sometimes it starts a discussion, in sci.lang it led to a thread 108
articles long, with a couple of Dvorak users who still hadn't lost
there qwerty abilities. That some people can switch keyboards like
switching gears was enlightning.
There is one site of a bikeybordal user who uses Dvorak solely
because of comfort. Its important to hear that from someone who can
go back and forth. The Dvorak has three elements. Alternation of
hands, so that the next letter can be set up. Balancece<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dvorak minus the effort