Question with Heatsink and Fan

Greg, the grease is to provide maximum heat conductivity and
not electrical. From web comparisons I see, it is Arctic
Silver 5 (www.arcticsilver.com). The contact surface of the
used heatsink has to be exceeding clean. Use acetone and
high purity alcohol, both of which are available from the
pharmacy. Actually, if you know of a commercial chemical
supply, it's so much the better to acquire higher purity
alcohol. Acetone is what women use to remove their
fingernail colors. Remove the remnant of the former stuff,
and finish it off and make it shiny with alcohol. Do not
use another polish to make it shinier further. It might
decrease the heat conductivity. All one needs are those
chemicals above and a couple of Q-tips.

Only a tiny dab of grease the size of a grain of rice is all
that is needed. The heat will melt the grease and spread it
throughout the contact surface.

I just bought a new heatsink and used Arctic Silver 5 on it.
I have been very happy with the results.

Tom

"greg" <greggail.TakeThisOut@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote in
message
news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
 > I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that
talked about
 > having a plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't
think its a piece
 > of plastic, looks more like thermal grease (square pad).
My question is
 > should I scrape this off and put on my own grease or just
go with whats
 > there?
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Greg
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

It seems you have a thermal pad between the heatsink and CPU heat spreader.
This is not quite as good for heat transfer as using a spreadable compound
(sort of like grease.) The difference is not great, but is significant
(perhaps 2 to 6 C lower temperatures. The difference also depends on how
smooth and flat the mating CPU and heatsink surfaces are. Thermal pads are
used by manufacturers because they give more consistent results than thermal
grease in a production line.

You should be careful in removing the thermal pad. The other suggestions
you've received are a little casual. Be VERY careful. Use a flat plastic
object for gentle scraping; the edge of a credit card (or similar item) is
ideal. A better cleaning fluid is a pine oil cleaner like Pinesol
undiluted. Certainly acetone is not called for, and could have a bad effect
on any plastic parts or coatings on the motherboard.

As far as polishing, may overclockers have successfully lapped (with wet
emery cloth on a flat surface, then finished with finer polishing compounds)
to get extremely flat and smooth surfaces. The surfaces can be made so flat
and smooth that heatsink compound is almost superfluous. A translucent
coating of thermal compound is all that is need (a single edged razor blade
is ideal for spreading the compound.) You will find that any Arctic Silver
compound is not significantly better than any other compound, and that
smoothness, flatness, and absolutely parallel installation of the heatsink
on the CPU are much more important, as is using the proper amount of
carefully spread thermal compound (to little is generally better than too
much.

On the other hand, a thermal pad covers a multitude of sins;
rough finished surfaces
non flat surfaces
non parallel installation
sloppy installation

which, of course, is OEM's use thermal pads.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"greg" <greggail.TakeThisOut@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote in message
news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
 > I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that talked about
 > having a plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't think its a piece
 > of plastic, looks more like thermal grease (square pad). My question is
 > should I scrape this off and put on my own grease or just go with whats
 > there?
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Greg
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

 >. A translucent
 > coating of thermal compound is all that is need (a single edged razor blade
 > is ideal for spreading the compound.) You will find that any Arctic Silver
 > compound is not significantly better than any other compound, and that
 > smoothness, flatness, and absolutely parallel installation of the heatsink
 > on the CPU are much more important, as is using the proper amount of
 > carefully spread thermal compound (to little is generally better than too
 > much.

I have a P4 3.2C and a Zalman 7000 HSF. I used AS5, using the size of
a grain of rice. But I did not spread it before attaching the HSF,
just turned it left and right, barely. Should I have spread it out?
Would it work better that way? I'm getting idle temps about 37-38C and
full load around 50C. I've got an aluminum case with good air flow.

--
PawsForThought<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

Depends. The only way to tell is to remove the heatsink and check that
thermal compound covers the complete interface. If the two surfaces are
very smooth, flat, and parallel, a volume of thermal compound equal to a
grain of rice is too much. If, on the other hand, if the surfaces are
rough, uneven, and/or cocked, then that amount is too little. I'd guess,
from your description of how you applied and spread the thermal compound,
that the thermal compound does NOT cover the complete interface.

Finally, if you're not having performance problems, and you're not trying to
overclock, then gaining a few degrees lower CPU temperature isn't worth the
extra trouble, or using Arctic Silver, or even using thermal compound rather
than a thermal pad. Which is why OEM's many times use a thermal pad. Even
butter does a pretty good job if the mating surfaces are smooth, flat, and
parallel.

BUT since you chose to lay out the money for a 'better than stock'
heatsink/fan, why stint on proper installation?

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"PawsForThought" <PawsForThought RemoveThis @earth.com> wrote in message
news:mn.2cbd7d5318880530.29104@earth.com...
  > >. A translucent
  > > coating of thermal compound is all that is need (a single edged razor
blade
  > > is ideal for spreading the compound.) You will find that any Arctic
Silver
  > > compound is not significantly better than any other compound, and that
  > > smoothness, flatness, and absolutely parallel installation of the
heatsink
  > > on the CPU are much more important, as is using the proper amount of
  > > carefully spread thermal compound (to little is generally better than
too
  > > much.
 >
 > I have a P4 3.2C and a Zalman 7000 HSF. I used AS5, using the size of
 > a grain of rice. But I did not spread it before attaching the HSF,
 > just turned it left and right, barely. Should I have spread it out?
 > Would it work better that way? I'm getting idle temps about 37-38C and
 > full load around 50C. I've got an aluminum case with good air flow.
 >
 > --
 > PawsForThought
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

Thanks for the great information -- I looked at the retailers list from
the Artic SIlver manufactureer and didn't see any sellers in the
Maryland area, so I guess I will have to order. I'll just run with the
thermal pad till I get my shipment.

Greg

Phil Weldon wrote:
 > Depends. The only way to tell is to remove the heatsink and check that
 > thermal compound covers the complete interface. If the two surfaces are
 > very smooth, flat, and parallel, a volume of thermal compound equal to a
 > grain of rice is too much. If, on the other hand, if the surfaces are
 > rough, uneven, and/or cocked, then that amount is too little. I'd guess,
 > from your description of how you applied and spread the thermal compound,
 > that the thermal compound does NOT cover the complete interface.
 >
 > Finally, if you're not having performance problems, and you're not trying to
 > overclock, then gaining a few degrees lower CPU temperature isn't worth the
 > extra trouble, or using Arctic Silver, or even using thermal compound rather
 > than a thermal pad. Which is why OEM's many times use a thermal pad. Even
 > butter does a pretty good job if the mating surfaces are smooth, flat, and
 > parallel.
 >
 > BUT since you chose to lay out the money for a 'better than stock'
 > heatsink/fan, why stint on proper installation?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

Some additional instructions for P4 come from the Arctic
Silver website,
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_big2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_big2.htm</a>

As it says at the website (last page) , if one uses acetone,
it MUST be followed by high purity isopropyl alcohol. There
are additional recommendations on what to use and what not
to use (see end of article). There is also the remark that
all that is needed is the size of a grain of uncooked rice
(Applications Instructions, paragraph 9). I suppose this
assumes a clean surface.

Other cleaners work. In fact they might look cleaner and
shinier to our eyes, like WD-40 and automotive degreasers.
But they might contain harmful residues. I keep in mind
heat conductivity, and not what is visible.

For P3s and other small contact area processors, Arctic
Silver has it in
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_small.htm" target="_blank">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_small.htm</a>

Tom


"Tom L" <tgliang.TakeThisOut@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:d0co7p$tvi$1@eskinews.eskimo.com...
 > Greg, the grease is to provide maximum heat conductivity
and
 > not electrical. From web comparisons I see, it is Arctic
 > Silver 5 (www.arcticsilver.com). The contact surface of
the
 > used heatsink has to be exceeding clean. Use acetone and
 > high purity alcohol, both of which are available from the
 > pharmacy. Actually, if you know of a commercial chemical
 > supply, it's so much the better to acquire higher purity
 > alcohol. Acetone is what women use to remove their
 > fingernail colors. Remove the remnant of the former
stuff,
 > and finish it off and make it shiny with alcohol. Do not
 > use another polish to make it shinier further. It might
 > decrease the heat conductivity. All one needs are those
 > chemicals above and a couple of Q-tips.
 >
 > Only a tiny dab of grease the size of a grain of rice is
all
 > that is needed. The heat will melt the grease and spread
it
 > throughout the contact surface.
 >
 > I just bought a new heatsink and used Arctic Silver 5 on
it.
 > I have been very happy with the results.
 >
 > Tom
 >
 > "greg" <greggail.TakeThisOut@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote
in
 > message
 > news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
  > > I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that
 > talked about
  > > having a plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't
 > think its a piece
  > > of plastic, looks more like thermal grease (square pad).
 > My question is
  > > should I scrape this off and put on my own grease or
just
 > go with whats
  > > there?
  > >
  > > Thanks,
  > > Greg
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

The most outstanding thing about Arctic Silver is the hype. Take everything
from their web site with a grain of rice. Arctic is little better than any
other thermal compound, and their cleaning instructions are unthinking (for
example, 'Goof-off' [one of their recommendations] contains NONE of the
other cleaners recommended!) Acetone especially is not a good choice.

And the finger in the baggie - what a hoot!
--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

I purchased a new celeron D proccesor 2.5Gh. I left the thermal grease on it
and just installed. I monitor temperatures regularily and it seems to be
fine I average about 27-34 degrees celcius.
"greg" <greggail.DeleteThis@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote in message
news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
 >I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that talked about having a
 >plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't think its a piece of plastic,
 >looks more like thermal grease (square pad). My question is should I
 >scrape this off and put on my own grease or just go with whats there?
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Greg
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

There's an article on Tom's Hardware a while back about the thermal pad /
thermal grease that Intel applies to their heat sinks. It specifically says
that you are better off with the retail solution than you are to replace the
retail thermal grease. <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html" target="_blank">http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html</a>

Hey Ent, you planning to overclock that thing?

Pat



"Ent" <tyson_tlo DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:VZTWd.590347$8l.107690@pd7tw1no...
 >I purchased a new celeron D proccesor 2.5Gh. I left the thermal grease on
 >it and just installed. I monitor temperatures regularily and it seems to be
 >fine I average about 27-34 degrees celcius.
 > "greg" <greggail DeleteThis @takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote in message
 > news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
  >>I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that talked about having
  >>a plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't think its a piece of
  >>plastic, looks more like thermal grease (square pad). My question is
  >>should I scrape this off and put on my own grease or just go with whats
  >>there?
  >>
  >> Thanks,
  >> Greg
  >>
 >
 >



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

I forgot to mention, that was specific to Prescott processors.

Pat


"Pat" <none DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message news:422c90b3$1_2@127.0.0.1...
 > There's an article on Tom's Hardware a while back about the thermal pad /
 > thermal grease that Intel applies to their heat sinks. It specifically
 > says that you are better off with the retail solution than you are to
 > replace the retail thermal grease.
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html</font" target="_blank">http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html</font</a>>
 >
 > Hey Ent, you planning to overclock that thing?
 >
 > Pat



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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 >> Stay informed about: Question with Heatsink and Fan 

Unfortunately, 'Tom's Hardware', as in so many cases, is crocked on this
description. Exactly how could changing the CPU/heatsink interface material
RAISE the temperature of the CPU, motherboard, AND case ambient air
temperature? A higher CPU temperature (given the same power consumption)
does not raise the overall system temperature. Evidently 'Tom's Hardware'
inadvertently changed another parameter (as we all have done in swapping
components or otherwise fooling around inside our systems.) The difference
is that we don't publish these 'operator errors' as significant discoveries.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."

"Pat" <none RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message news:422c90b3$1_2@127.0.0.1...
 > There's an article on Tom's Hardware a while back about the thermal pad /
 > thermal grease that Intel applies to their heat sinks. It specifically
says
 > that you are better off with the retail solution than you are to replace
the
 > retail thermal grease.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html" target="_blank">http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041114/index.html</a>
 >
 > Hey Ent, you planning to overclock that thing?
 >
 > Pat
 >
 >
 >
 > "Ent" <tyson_tlo RemoveThis @shaw.ca> wrote in message
 > news:VZTWd.590347$8l.107690@pd7tw1no...
  > >I purchased a new celeron D proccesor 2.5Gh. I left the thermal grease on
  > >it and just installed. I monitor temperatures regularily and it seems to
be
  > >fine I average about 27-34 degrees celcius.
  > > "greg" <greggail RemoveThis @takethisout.starpower.andthis.com> wrote in message
  > > news:42292E62.9050104@takethisout.starpower.andthis.com...
   > >>I just bought a 2.8 ghz and I saw a couple posts that talked about
having
   > >>a plastic piece on the heatsink. Well I don't think its a piece of
   > >>plastic, looks more like thermal grease (square pad). My question is
   > >>should I scrape this off and put on my own grease or just go with whats
   > >>there?
   > >>
   > >> Thanks,
   > >> Greg
   > >>
  > >
  > >
 >
 >
 >
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