Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ?

On or about Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:06:45 GMT did "----------@example.com"
<---------- DeleteThis @example.com> dribble thusly:

>I see that larger Dell LCD monitors claim to be able to display
>92% of NTSC colour gamut, as opposed to the 72% of other LCD monitors.
>
>Are there any other - non Dell - monitors with the same feature ?

My 30" HP LP3065 display has the 92% backlight, and I believe the
latest Samsung 305T incarnation does as well. Not sure about the
Apple Cinema, or the LG (which I wouldn't recommend anyway, based on
what I've read about their dead pixel policy).
--
- Mike

Ignore the Python in me to send e-mail.
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ? 

"Bob Myers" <nospample....RemoveThis@address.invalid> wrote:

> Quite a few. Gamuts of 92% NTSC and greater are
> becoming increasing common in the larger (22" and up)
> monitor panel sizes.

How is this being done?
I presume these are still CCFLs, because the LED BLUs
typically claim over 100% of NTSC gamut.

> This isn't necessarily a good thing, mind you ...

Oh, do tell us more.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ? 

"rjn" <email4rjn DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1191000883.570013.227230@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> How is this being done?
> I presume these are still CCFLs, because the LED BLUs
> typically claim over 100% of NTSC gamut.

Yup. CCFLs with improved (more narrow emission
spectra) phoshors, coupled with properly-tuned-to-
match color filters.

>
>> This isn't necessarily a good thing, mind you ...
>
> Oh, do tell us more.

Oh, right, Bob, you just HAD to drop a nickel in my slot,
didn't ya?

Haven't got time for a complete answer right now, but
please consider the following: If you have images from a
source that was expecting, say, an sRGB output
characteristic (and that is currently the most common
assumption when dealing with things like consumer-grade
digital photography) - how accurate are those colors
going to be if you send them to a ">92% NTSC" display,
without any additional color management being applied
(which is also the norm for PC systems currently)?

Granted, the colors will be "brighter" or "more vivid,"
and if that's the look you were going for, great. But
what if you were after *accuracy*?

Bob M.
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ? 

"Bob Myers" <nospamplease.RemoveThis@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:fdjsrc$vou$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> "rjn" <email4rjn.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1191000883.570013.227230@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> How is this being done?
>> I presume these are still CCFLs, because the LED BLUs
>> typically claim over 100% of NTSC gamut.
>
> Yup. CCFLs with improved (more narrow emission
> spectra) phoshors, coupled with properly-tuned-to-
> match color filters.
>
>>
>>> This isn't necessarily a good thing, mind you ...
>>
>> Oh, do tell us more.
>
> Oh, right, Bob, you just HAD to drop a nickel in my slot,
> didn't ya?
>
> Haven't got time for a complete answer right now, but
> please consider the following: If you have images from a
> source that was expecting, say, an sRGB output
> characteristic (and that is currently the most common
> assumption when dealing with things like consumer-grade
> digital photography) - how accurate are those colors
> going to be if you send them to a ">92% NTSC" display,
> without any additional color management being applied
> (which is also the norm for PC systems currently)?
>
> Granted, the colors will be "brighter" or "more vivid,"
> and if that's the look you were going for, great. But
> what if you were after *accuracy*?
>
> Bob M.
>
Welllll, Bob(s)...... properly done stuff should NOT suffer from
accuracy, but essentially I'm dropping another nickel in BobM's
slot, 'cause how many designs are "properly done", as opposed
to "compromising for the sake of economy"? Also, it really has a
lot to do with the graphics driver in the machine as well - well written
drivers will know the gamut of an attached display, and (should)
compensate for that when sending data to the display.
You know what they say about "Proof of the pudding", though,
and how many of us are properly equipped to measure any kind of
accuracy?

Take away is that this is mostly just another kind of "horsepower
race", and the value to any individual will depend on individual
situations & capabilities.

On a side note, we face the same issues with any kind of BLU,
including the upcoming LED's. I already have it on good authority
that units with LED BLU's have easily detectable perceptual differences
from others when displaying the same material - related to spectral
content, more than the primary colors & filters....

(How's that for a mouthful of marshmallow????)

NGA
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ? 

"Not Gimpy Anymore" <nogimpREMOV.RemoveThis@msn.com> wrote in message
news:tQxMi.13$Pv2.0@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

> Welllll, Bob(s)...... properly done stuff should NOT suffer from
> accuracy,

Ummmm...didja leave a sylababble out there, "NotG"?

On the other hand, I have to admit that an awful lot of
monitors these days do NOT suffer from accuracy....

> but essentially I'm dropping another nickel in BobM's
> slot, 'cause how many designs are "properly done", as opposed
> to "compromising for the sake of economy"? Also, it really has a
> lot to do with the graphics driver in the machine as well - well written
> drivers will know the gamut of an attached display, and (should)
> compensate for that when sending data to the display.

Two more questions for consideration, though -

1. How often is real, honest-to-Cthulhu profile-based
color management actually provided in most PC environments
today? And...

2. Let's say we start with a good ol' "72% gamut"
(standard gamut) panel, which has 8 bit/color drivers
and is being driven by an 8 bit/color source. Suddenly we
push that panel's gamut out to 92% or "better." How
much is "1 LSB" of color error in the latter case, compared
with where we started?

Bob M.
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ? 

"Bob Myers" <nospamplease DeleteThis @address.invalid> wrote in message
news:fduc2f$vvi$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> "Not Gimpy Anymore" <nogimpREMOV DeleteThis @msn.com> wrote in message
> news:tQxMi.13$Pv2.0@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> Welllll, Bob(s)...... properly done stuff should NOT suffer from
>> accuracy,
>
> Ummmm...didja leave a sylababble out there, "NotG"?

Yeah - at THIS age it's getting harder to think & type at the same
time....heh So, looks like I'm suffering, not the displays...

> On the other hand, I have to admit that an awful lot of
> monitors these days do NOT suffer from accuracy....
>
>> but essentially I'm dropping another nickel in BobM's
>> slot, 'cause how many designs are "properly done", as opposed
>> to "compromising for the sake of economy"? Also, it really has a
>> lot to do with the graphics driver in the machine as well - well written
>> drivers will know the gamut of an attached display, and (should)
>> compensate for that when sending data to the display.
>
> Two more questions for consideration, though -
>
> 1. How often is real, honest-to-Cthulhu profile-based
> color management actually provided in most PC environments
> today? And...

Yup - That's da whole issue - MHO is that sRGB torpedoed
good profile management.... YOMV

> 2. Let's say we start with a good ol' "72% gamut"
> (standard gamut) panel, which has 8 bit/color drivers
> and is being driven by an 8 bit/color source. Suddenly we
> push that panel's gamut out to 92% or "better." How
> much is "1 LSB" of color error in the latter case, compared
> with where we started?

Aw, c'mon - let's move to the user side - perceptual arena.
Ask about Min Perceptible Color Difference . . . MPCD. Makes
me no diff, as both really see no significant improvement...
It's all 'bout numbers, from what I can see, so it's moot until
some kind of good profile managment is allowed to show up at
the party (like maybe critical "workstation" jobs... pre-pubs,
medical, etc.) MHO (there it is again) is that LED BLU's will be
there for the most demanding apps whenever the apps are ready to
adopt them & their specific baggage....

> Bob M.
>
NotG.....
 >> Stay informed about: Which LCD monitors have "wide color gamut" ?