Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed?

Elle wrote:
> "John McGaw" <nobody.RemoveThis@nowh.ere> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>>> I have a one-year-old Samsung 712n SyncMaster flat monitor.
>>> It's been grainy pretty much from the get-go. I have
>>> adjusted and experimented with the settings many times.
>>> Still, much of the time the display is grainy. Seems to come
>>> and go.
>>>
>>> Can someone please advise on whether some sort of video card
>>> would help? I am ignorant on videocards and am starting to
>>> research the matter today.
>>>
>>> My computer is a four-year-old no frills Gateway.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas.
>>>
> Related aside: I have replaced the hard drive and power
> supply by myself and feel I can again get into the case and
> locate and install a video card or whatever, with some
> guidance and hints from resources such as this newsgroup.

This is great you are willing to open up your computer case. Do you have a
friend's computer available you could take your monitor to and see how it
displays? If you have a work computer maybe you could take your monitor
into work and hook it up to see how it displays.

--
<Bill>

Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
N 53° 51.140' W 166° 30.228' (WGS 84)
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:43:40 GMT, "Elle" <honda.lioness.RemoveThis@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"John McGaw" <nobody.RemoveThis@nowh.ere> wrote
>> Elle wrote:
>> > I have a one-year-old Samsung 712n SyncMaster flat
>monitor.
>> > It's been grainy pretty much from the get-go. I have
>> > adjusted and experimented with the settings many times.
>> > Still, much of the time the display is grainy. Seems to
>come
>> > and go.
>> >
>> > Can someone please advise on whether some sort of video
>card
>> > would help? I am ignorant on videocards and am starting
>to
>> > research the matter today.
>> >
>> > My computer is a four-year-old no frills Gateway.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any ideas.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> And your video settings are?
>
>1025 x 768 high color.

This may be a potential cause. High colour means 16bit colour
(Ideally, you'd choose "True Colour" for your display). You might get
a slight performance boost using this lower colour setting, but you do
give up some image quality, as the computer has to dither to make up
for those missing colours. Depending on your visual tolerance and the
specific image you've chosen to display, you might notice the
difference or you might not. I guess the effect could be described as
grainy of blotchy.

---------------------------------------------
Thanks.


MCheu
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"Sleepy" <nospam DeleteThis @here.com> wrote
E wrote
> > Or Samsung just makes a lousy product, and it's my fault
for
> > buying cheap.
>
> even cheap LCD monitors arent grainy -

That is helpful to know. I will investigate your suggestion
below. (Sorry, I am not that swift on computer hardware and
software. Again, everything people have posted will be
investigated. Yesterday I learned a video adapter and video
card are one in the same. Yada yada. Gotta get the
vocabulary down.)

> the usual problem is ghosting when
> scrolling text because of a slow response time. just a
thought (since you
> mention graphics cards) - are you currently using a DVI to
VGA adapter? LCDs > should best be run off a DVI output.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

> "Sleepy" <nospam.DeleteThis@here.com> wrote
> > the usual problem is ghosting when
> > scrolling text because of a slow response time. just a
> thought (since you
> > mention graphics cards) - are you currently using a DVI
to
> VGA adapter? LCDs > should best be run off a DVI output.

Under Display Properties... Adapter, the following is
written:

Intel 82810E Graphics Controller
Features: DirectDraw 1.0
Software Version: 4.0
Current Files: i81xdw9x.drv, *vdd, *vflatd, i81xDD.dll

The grainy display is killing my eyes. Anymore clues are
welcome.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:25:26 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:


>> optimum resolution and color depth.
>
>As I posted, the display is grainy regardless of whether I
>have the monitor at the spec resolution or any other
>resolution.


The issue was not resolution, it was color depth.
It should be set to "True Color (24 bit)" or "True Color (32
bit)" in Display Properties.

While the suggestion another poster made to buy a graphics
card would yield more performance in gaming, unless your
Intel Integrated video has some kind of defect, another
video card should not be necessary to fix this issue.


>
>I am experimenting with the other suggestions. I don't have
>anyone with a computer to whom I can take my monitor and
>test it, but that's a good suggestion and I will keep it in
>mind.

If you have some personal webspace (like a website that came
with your internet account) you might take a picture of this
grainy screen, post the picture on that webspace and provide
a link there. Seeing exactly what it looks like might help
in diagnosing it. Preferribly the desktop would then have a
wallpaper up that is a full color image with a fair amount
of gradient color (smooth transistions from dark to bright
or another color), but not TOO dark as that would make it
harder to see detail. Also don't compress the image into a
JPEG as that may remove a lot of the grainy detail. GIF
format would add even more grainy detail. PNG or BMP format
picture would work better to show this detail.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 06:04:42 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:



>I do wonder if my fancy LCD flat screen monitor is simply
>too much for my simple built-in video adapter to handle any
>where near optimally.

No, that is not a problem.

>The sites I read also said such PCI
>slot video cards are now hard to find.

They're not "as" common but any larger computer parts store
on the internet is bound to have a few.

>I have doubts that
>adding more RAM will help much as well. But beat me over the
>head that it will, and I'll give it more consideration.

No, it will not help at all.


>
>For the last several hours I have been seriously considering
>beginning to build a computer myself. Background: I have
>been generally disgusted with my Gateway for various reasons
>starting from the first few days of purchase in 2001
>(integrated modem baloney, mostly). At times I wonder if
>the micro ATX design of my Gateway Essential 900c hasn't
>been a large part of the many blips I've had with this
>machine over the years. There simply isn't enough cooling
>going on, say.

Doubtful, either it's overheating or it isn't.

Most often the problem is a lot of junk installed by the
OEM, or really old drivers. A clean install of windows,
from an original Windows disc, not an OEM factory restore
that reloads all the same junk, plus the newest drivers from
the respective chipset manufacturers rather than those from
the OEM, will often resolve issues.

On the other hand like any system, if it ages and gets
clogged with dust it'll need cleaned out, and on a mATX
there are some more significant areas like the power supply
intake and exhaust area as it might even be the only fan in
the whole case.

>Today I live with a number of pesky little
>bugs that seem both hardware and software related. I studied
>one of Dan Gookin's books ("Windows for Dummies"?) recently
>and it helped, but mostly in confirming that people
>generally live with bugs. I reformatted my old hard disc and
>reinstalled all my software twice in the last year. (Gookin
>actually says that's way overkill.)

It is useful IF the original drivers and software were sound
and became corrupt. Otherwise, the most gain comes from
newer drivers and software... you really have to take each
specific issue and address individually instead of lumping
them all together as "little bugs".


>
>I don't play video games or work with serious graphics
>programs, other than maybe Microsoft PictureIt and a bit of
>editing of digital photos. I avoid downloading any software,
>even if it's said to improve things, because it seems like
>nine times out of ten, it monkeys with settings and makes
>things worse.

Because of this, you aren't likely to need a new video card.


>Today I started shopping for computer cases and
>contemplating whether I could throw my current somewhat mini
>but only a year old power supply into a mid size case for an
>ATX motherboard, and move my current hard drive over as
>well, etc. Then I could buy a new motherboard, and after a
>week of experimenting and prodding, have a much better
>machine for maybe $100 tops for the case and I dunno another
>$100 for a low level (but superior to my current)
>motherboard. Of course the learning experience has value,
>too. I am in computers for the long whole. I make my
>(humble) living in careful stock picking, yada.
>

The case itself is not likely the problem, and possibly not
the motherboard either. Still, if you wanted to upgrade,
faster parts can easily need more power and thus the power
supply may need replaced too, and just replacing the
motherboard without a clear need to do so is somewhat
pointless for your needs, unless it were to facilitate a
faster CPU or more memory.


>In short, I wonder if I'd be a heckuva lot happier making a
>radical change in my computing hardware, for around $200?,
>lest I instead throw somewhat more good money (maybe $100 or
>so for RAM and a PCI video card) after bad.
>

Not knowing all the specifics of your system it's a bit hard
to put out a ballpark cost but closer to $320 might be more
realistic.

$80 case & power
$80 motherboard w/integrated video
$80 cpu
$80 1GB memory

Then again, for your general uses you might gain the most
from a hard drive upgrade rather than the other parts, and
if you had a lot of OEM junk installed into the operating
system, geting rid of a lot of it.



Have you checked the (monitor) cable attachment points on
the system and monitor? Wondering if it's just a loose
cable.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"kony" <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote
> Most often the problem is a lot of junk installed by the
> OEM, or really old drivers. A clean install of windows,
> from an original Windows disc, not an OEM factory restore
> that reloads all the same junk, plus the newest drivers
from
> the respective chipset manufacturers rather than those
from
> the OEM, will often resolve issues.

I don't know if what came with this Gateway computer new in
2001 is an "original Windows disc" or "an OEM factory
restore." As I mentioned earlier, I reformatted the original
hard drive, and re-installed everything, a few months ago. I
also did this again with a brand new hard drive. I didn't
use any "restore" feature of the software.

I have cleaned the case (vacuumed, Q-tipped with rubbing
alcohol certain parts with obvious dust on them) a couple
of times in the last 12 months. In addition, the hard drive
is new as of a few months ago.

> It is useful IF the original drivers and software were
sound
> and became corrupt. Otherwise, the most gain comes from
> newer drivers and software... you really have to take each
> specific issue and address individually instead of lumping
> them all together as "little bugs".

Yup. Each bug has some obscure cause.

> Have you checked the (monitor) cable attachment points on
> the system and monitor? Wondering if it's just a loose
> cable.

Yes, I tightened both ends the other day.

I realize this is likely impossible to troubleshoot from
afar and appreciate your efforts.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"Harkhof" <hark.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GV8Cf.16334$bF.3556@dukeread07...
>
> "Elle" <honda.lioness.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:_DZBf.5958$rH5.1115@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> "Harkhof" <hark.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Elle wrote about not having an AGP slot

<snip>
>
> I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe that your onboard
> video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually, I would not
> choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back in 2001, it was
> amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone could chime in
> with the comparison of video quality between your onboard video and PCI
> regarding LCD.
>
> Hark

What I've left out here that was included in Kony's post is: Try the newest
drivers first. It may indeed help. But even if it does and you plan on
keeping the machine, I highly recommend adding RAM.

Hark
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"Harkhof" <hark.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote
snip but all comments seem to reinforce my decision today
> I highly recommend it. I have been building my own systems
since '95 and
> would never consider doing otherwise. However, it's not
necessarily cheaper
> than buying a new system, although you can expect much
greater quality by
> building it yourself (given that you buy quality parts,
which pays off in
> the long run).
> Just be aware that the cost of building your machine
snowballs. You'll
> discover that one hardware purchase necessitates another
HW or SW purchase.
>
> I'd be surprised if you could do it for that amount. In
replacing the system
> you have, You can count on buying a new case, mother
board, cpu, RAM, power
> supply, video card, possibly a new copy of windows (if
your XP disk
> [assuming you have XP] came with your system, it is most
likely OEM and will
> not install on any other machine) and probably more.
>
> I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe
that your onboard
> video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually,
I would not
> choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back
in 2001, it was
> amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone
could chime in with
> the comparison of video quality between your onboard video
and PCI regarding
> LCD.

Hark and anyone else who's been able to stand this saga this
long:

Over the last year the aggravation (to the eyes;
troubleshooting; the crashes; the backing up of files and
reformatting etc.) has been so great and so unassignable (at
least to me, a computer peon) that I decided this morning a
massive upgrade, one way or another, was in order. I tried
shops in the past but never got good results. Gookin of the
PCs for Dummies books also casts aspersions on them: They
reformat and reinstall, period.

After checking prices online and in person for motherboards,
cpus, cases, and power supplies; talking it over with an
offline friend; then checking out the cost of assembly at a
PCClub shop, I did indeed quickly come to the conclusion
(like you noted, Hark) that it was more cost efficient to
buy some kind of package. Still, for the first time in some
14 years of owning computers, tomorrow I will have a
computer case and power supply; CPU; and motherboard without
a big name on it. (Screw the bastards at HP and definitely
at Gateway.) I get some basic peripherals (hard drive, CD
rom) too. My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
256 Mb. She too said I would notice the difference. (I have
been hearing this from others for years but had doubts for
various reasons. I simply don't use intensive
applications... yada yada. I hope I am pleasantly surprised
to learn I was wrong.)

I'll take my current hard drive and turn it into a slave, I
think, or make my current computer into a backup computer,
for word processing and spreadsheeting. My power supply will
double. I will have Windows XP (versus my old computer's
Windows ME).

I suspect Windows ME is not the greatest version and may be
the cause of other problems. I was also having simple
power-up problems at first startup. And even my fairly new
power supply makes odd noises under changing loads at times.
All of these I have troubleshot with the aid of manuals and
internet resources. Kony, I see now that my old Windows CDs
are system restore CDs. The technician today made a
distinction between these, too, informing me my new computer
would come with the OEM Windows XP discs, licensing info,
etc.

The tech also said that modern onboard video adapters had
come a long way in the last few years. Still, my new mobo
has an AGP slot. (And not that the tech knows more than any
of you. Talk seems a little cheap in this business... )

I was disappointed I wouldn't be building this all myself,
but at least I will set up the slave-master hard drive
configuration on my own, and so keep building on this skimpy
knowledge base of mine. I'm paying $300 (before taxes, and
with one of those doggone nuisance rebates thrown in) for
all this. That is less than what I felt I was looking at for
buying the parts individually.

Parts quality will be something I will learn. I didn't buy
top of the line, obviously. If I get four years out of this
next computer, with a lot less aggravation, I think I'll
ultimately be pleased. Or else resigned that "quality" is
not what the computer industry has in mind for much of its
business right now.

The first step is admission. I know I've been one cynical
customer here. You all who post here to help others: Great
community service. I did learn more about computer design
from this thread. Forward.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"Elle" <honda.lioness.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DFdCf.7133$vU2.6410@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Harkhof" <hark.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote

> My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
> though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
> 256 Mb.

xp calls for 256 minimum. you'll be much better off springing for the extra
and running 512. __much better off.__
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:08:05 GMT, "Sleepy" <nospam DeleteThis @here.com>
wrote:


>Many companies like Gateway, Tiny, Time etc ..... built PCs with fast
>processors but cheap and nasty motherboards to save production costs of
>course. A decent motherboard at the time would have had 4 or 5 PCI slots for
>you to add upgrades like Sound, Modem, Network or TV cards and an AGP slot
>for a decent graphics card. Instead you got a small Micro ATX board with no
>AGP slot (they were in common use even back then) and only 2 PCI slots. Even
>so that board can still do for your needs.

That's a rather arbitrary conclusion. Gateway has used
fairly decent boards and while an enthusiast who *needs* to
add 4 PCI cards might not like them, for their intended use
they can do fine, not necessarily anything cheap or nasty
about the boards for what they are.

Tiny, I have no idea about theirs.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:41:38 GMT, "Elle" <honda.lioness RemoveThis @earthlink.net>
wrote:

>If I knew this was like, say, buying a 2006 automobile at
>the dealer's with 2000 miles on it, I'd be more assertive.
>Any comments as to whether that's fair, or whether that's
>really not a cool shop practice?

Have no idea how much you are really paying etc but usually rebates
are LARGE on systems so its a big deal.

For instance on most components I buy the rebate discount can range
from 80% discount to as little as 10% but on a system I bought
recently an AMD 754 socket the net cost was $199 but the rebate was
$250 !

If I had lost the rebate I would have had to get a HUGE discount on
the price to make it even close to being a decent deal.

If you are losing a $50 rebate for say a $50 or greater discount then
it may be worth it to you since some people dont like discounts.

But if you are losing a $100-250 rebate for a $50 or 75 discount
FORGET IT !

Sure rebates are a hassle but if you do everything right youll get it
as long as its a reputable company.

Frankly you should get BOTH. Everyone who buys new is getting the
rebate. The fact its a display model entitles you to a DISCOUNT ON TOP
OF THE REBATE. Thats the way its almost always done in stores that
Ive heard of. Its not a law of course so they an do anything they want
but no way would I take it UNLESS the discount was larger than the
rebate or at least close and if you hate rebates.

Really dont be a jerk to anyone but always be assertive. Dont yell or
scream or accuse anyone of anything or get testy but you always have
the right to cancel or change your mind as long as it reasonable.

There are sales going on all the time and most people buy a system
once in a while so they will be stuck with whatever they buy for at
least a year or two.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed? 

"Elle" <honda.lioness.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DFdCf.7133$vU2.6410@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Harkhof" <hark.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote
> snip but all comments seem to reinforce my decision today
>> I highly recommend it. I have been building my own systems
> since '95 and
>> would never consider doing otherwise. However, it's not
> necessarily cheaper
>> than buying a new system, although you can expect much
> greater quality by
>> building it yourself (given that you buy quality parts,
> which pays off in
>> the long run).
>> Just be aware that the cost of building your machine
> snowballs. You'll
>> discover that one hardware purchase necessitates another
> HW or SW purchase.
>>
>> I'd be surprised if you could do it for that amount. In
> replacing the system
>> you have, You can count on buying a new case, mother
> board, cpu, RAM, power
>> supply, video card, possibly a new copy of windows (if
> your XP disk
>> [assuming you have XP] came with your system, it is most
> likely OEM and will
>> not install on any other machine) and probably more.
>>
>> I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe
> that your onboard
>> video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually,
> I would not
>> choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back
> in 2001, it was
>> amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone
> could chime in with
>> the comparison of video quality between your onboard video
> and PCI regarding
>> LCD.
>
> Hark and anyone else who's been able to stand this saga this
> long:
>
> Over the last year the aggravation (to the eyes;
> troubleshooting; the crashes; the backing up of files and
> reformatting etc.) has been so great and so unassignable (at
> least to me, a computer peon) that I decided this morning a
> massive upgrade, one way or another, was in order. I tried
> shops in the past but never got good results. Gookin of the
> PCs for Dummies books also casts aspersions on them: They
> reformat and reinstall, period.
>
> After checking prices online and in person for motherboards,
> cpus, cases, and power supplies; talking it over with an
> offline friend; then checking out the cost of assembly at a
> PCClub shop, I did indeed quickly come to the conclusion
> (like you noted, Hark) that it was more cost efficient to
> buy some kind of package. Still, for the first time in some
> 14 years of owning computers, tomorrow I will have a
> computer case and power supply; CPU; and motherboard without
> a big name on it. (Screw the bastards at HP and definitely
> at Gateway.) I get some basic peripherals (hard drive, CD
> rom) too. My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
> though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
> 256 Mb. She too said I would notice the difference. (I have
> been hearing this from others for years but had doubts for
> various reasons. I simply don't use intensive
> applications... yada yada. I hope I am pleasantly surprised
> to learn I was wrong.)
>
> I'll take my current hard drive and turn it into a slave, I
> think, or make my current computer into a backup computer,
> for word processing and spreadsheeting. My power supply will
> double. I will have Windows XP (versus my old computer's
> Windows ME).
>
> I suspect Windows ME is not the greatest version and may be
> the cause of other problems. I was also having simple
> power-up problems at first startup. And even my fairly new
> power supply makes odd noises under changing loads at times.
> All of these I have troubleshot with the aid of manuals and
> internet resources. Kony, I see now that my old Windows CDs
> are system restore CDs. The technician today made a
> distinction between these, too, informing me my new computer
> would come with the OEM Windows XP discs, licensing info,
> etc.
>
> The tech also said that modern onboard video adapters had
> come a long way in the last few years. Still, my new mobo
> has an AGP slot. (And not that the tech knows more than any
> of you. Talk seems a little cheap in this business... )
>
> I was disappointed I wouldn't be building this all myself,
> but at least I will set up the slave-master hard drive
> configuration on my own, and so keep building on this skimpy
> knowledge base of mine. I'm paying $300 (before taxes, and
> with one of those doggone nuisance rebates thrown in) for
> all this. That is less than what I felt I was looking at for
> buying the parts individually.
>
> Parts quality will be something I will learn. I didn't buy
> top of the line, obviously. If I get four years out of this
> next computer, with a lot less aggravation, I think I'll
> ultimately be pleased. Or else resigned that "quality" is
> not what the computer industry has in mind for much of its
> business right now.
>
> The first step is admission. I know I've been one cynical
> customer here. You all who post here to help others: Great
> community service. I did learn more about computer design
> from this thread. Forward.
 >> Stay informed about: Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed?