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Bernard Robinson

External


Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:09 pm
Post subject: Move to SATA
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>storage (more info?)
Greetings,
Currently I am running 2 WD800JB's in a Raid 0 configuration on a
Promise Fasttrak 100 which is mounted in a Abit TH7II. My new
motherboard an Asus P4C800-E has 2 sets of SATA headers. One controlled
by the Promise PDC20378 controller and the other by the Intel ICH5
controller. My questions are as follows.

1.I am considering SATA to IDE adapters for the WD800JB's. The SIIG SC-
SATA12 and the Highpoint Rockethead 100's any opinion on which is best?

2.What are the odds that I will be able to migrate my current array over
to either the PDC20378 or the ICH5 controller intact.

3.Which of the controllers would theoretically offer the best
performance.

Thank you for you kind consideration,

Bernie


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Mr. Grinch

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Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 95



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
I'm interested in any responses you get. I'm thinking I'd like to go SATA
just to clean up my drive cabling, as I have 5 ATA hard drives plus a CDRW
and a DVDRW. But it seems too early and I may just wait until I get a new
system. The SATA adapters don't seem to common and a little expensive just
to clean up cabling. Then again, round cables are a litte expensive too.

As far as controllers go, if you want something really good consider 3Ware.
Otherwise, either controller will probably be about the same, one might
have a bit lower cpu usage than the other. I might suspect the Intel
driver might get wider driver support under various OS than the Promise
controller. Sometimes it takes a while for Promise to get a fixed driver
for an OS... I had to wait a while for Server 2003 on a TX133 card, there
was a bug in the one that came with it.


Bernard Robinson <bnardnotinpgh.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1a15a9cf1eb3eabc989681@text-east.newsfeeds.com:

 > Greetings,
 > Currently I am running 2 WD800JB's in a Raid 0 configuration on a
 > Promise Fasttrak 100 which is mounted in a Abit TH7II. My new
 > motherboard an Asus P4C800-E has 2 sets of SATA headers. One
 > controlled by the Promise PDC20378 controller and the other by the
 > Intel ICH5 controller. My questions are as follows.
 >
 > 1.I am considering SATA to IDE adapters for the WD800JB's. The SIIG
 > SC- SATA12 and the Highpoint Rockethead 100's any opinion on which is
 > best?
 >
 > 2.What are the odds that I will be able to migrate my current array
 > over to either the PDC20378 or the ICH5 controller intact.
 >
 > 3.Which of the controllers would theoretically offer the best
 > performance.
 >
 > Thank you for you kind consideration,
 >
 > Bernie
 >
 >
 > ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
 > News==---- <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newsfeed.com" target="_blank">http://www.newsfeed.com</a> The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
 > World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers
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Rita A. Berkowitz

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Since: Nov 18, 2003
Posts: 8



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Mr. Grinch" <grinch RemoveThis @hatespam.yucky> wrote in message
news:Xns94375E6A6B44Dgrinchhatespamyucksh@24.71.223.159...

 > I'm interested in any responses you get. I'm thinking I'd like to go SATA
 > just to clean up my drive cabling, as I have 5 ATA hard drives plus a CDRW
 > and a DVDRW. But it seems too early and I may just wait until I get a new
 > system. The SATA adapters don't seem to common and a little expensive
just
 > to clean up cabling. Then again, round cables are a litte expensive too.
 >

Why move to SATA when you can use SCSI U320 or Fibre? It really sounds like
you have a squirrels nest of wires in that box. Go SCSI and never look
back.



Rita<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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J.Clarke

External


Since: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 160



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:07:15 GMT
"Mr. Grinch" <grinch.TakeThisOut@hatespam.yucky> wrote:

 > Way, way too expensive for my needs and almost no performance benefit
 > to my setup, where the bottleneck is the drive. I used to have
 > all-scsi systems and have totally dropped it, just not meaningfull for
 > a home system. Also, noise and heat is a concern for my home system,
 > and there's no way I'd go for 10 or 15K rpm scsi drives.
 >
 > If I had the coin, I'd to a SATA RAID array though, and use SCSI or
 > Fiber fabric if I had fast enough drives that a SATA connection
 > bottlenecked. In fact many of the SATA and ATA external arrays are
 > delivered in just this way.
 >
 > My opintion, SATA is going to make it easy to deliver 1TB storage in
 > the home PC, and the home PC needs capacity more than it needs
 > speed... operating at speeds that you would consider "near-line" level
 > performance in a server environment is perfectly acceptable on PCs.
 > Sustained loads from multiple users or apps usually isn't an issue on
 > the home PC, even if it is serving up media (video, music, etc).

If you check the archives you'll find that Rita's solution to every
problem is SCSI. I suspect that she'd recommend it if one asked her
what time it was.


 > "Rita A. Berkowitz" <ritaberk.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in
 > news:vrl7kodqbma10c@corp.supernews.com:
 >
  > > Why move to SATA when you can use SCSI U320 or Fibre? It really
  > > sounds like you have a squirrels nest of wires in that box. Go SCSI
  > > and never look back.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Rita
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
 >


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mr. Grinch

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 95



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Way, way too expensive for my needs and almost no performance benefit to my
setup, where the bottleneck is the drive. I used to have all-scsi systems
and have totally dropped it, just not meaningfull for a home system. Also,
noise and heat is a concern for my home system, and there's no way I'd go
for 10 or 15K rpm scsi drives.

If I had the coin, I'd to a SATA RAID array though, and use SCSI or Fiber
fabric if I had fast enough drives that a SATA connection bottlenecked. In
fact many of the SATA and ATA external arrays are delivered in just this
way.

My opintion, SATA is going to make it easy to deliver 1TB storage in the
home PC, and the home PC needs capacity more than it needs speed...
operating at speeds that you would consider "near-line" level performance
in a server environment is perfectly acceptable on PCs. Sustained loads
from multiple users or apps usually isn't an issue on the home PC, even if
it is serving up media (video, music, etc).



"Rita A. Berkowitz" <ritaberk DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in
news:vrl7kodqbma10c@corp.supernews.com:

 > Why move to SATA when you can use SCSI U320 or Fibre? It really
 > sounds like you have a squirrels nest of wires in that box. Go SCSI
 > and never look back.
 >
 >
 >
 > Rita
 >
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mr. Grinch

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 95



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
An AI marketing program run amok?

Seriously though, I don't blame her for her efforts. I used to be the same
way about SCSI many years ago, say prior to 98/99. But back then the
performance and size differences between SCSI and IDE were so dramatic that
the price was worth it to at least some professional workstation users.
For example you could get SCSI drives 5x the size of the biggest IDE, with
much more cache. That simply isn't true any longer and the performance
difference has continued to shrink.

Not that I don't wish we all used SCSI. I know the technical and practical
benefits. The industry could have easily made SCSI as cheap and as
standard in motherboards as Firewire or USB. But the industry likes to
keep certain technologies segregated to "server class" machines, things
like SCSI and SMP, so that they can continue to charge a premium for them
in those markets.

I think it's great that we are seeing ATA / SATA enter the server market
and bring prices down. It's having a much bigger impact than having SCSI
in the home market might make.



"J.Clarke" <jclarke.DeleteThis@attglobal.net> wrote in
news:20031119144748.4903aec4.jclarke@attglobal.net:
 > If you check the archives you'll find that Rita's solution to every
 > problem is SCSI. I suspect that she'd recommend it if one asked her
 > what time it was.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Cobblers

External


Since: Nov 19, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:08 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:16:35 GMT, "Mr. Grinch" <grinch.TakeThisOut@hatespam.yucky>
wrote:

 >I'm interested in any responses you get. I'm thinking I'd like to go SATA
 >just to clean up my drive cabling, as I have 5 ATA hard drives

I bet that's a noisy setup. I went to a mobile rack so I can run as
many OS's as I want and only have to have one HD running at a time.
Cuts down on the noise pollution considerably.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mr. Grinch

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 95



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
You know, it IS a noisy setup, but the drives weren't the worst offenders.

The case has a lot of fans. I've got two intake fans in front, one of them
in front of the hard drives, one below. I've got two exhaust fans behind
the cpus. There is a fan on each of the cpus, one on the video card, plus
the power supply.

I replaced the case fans with ball bearing fans but it didn't help much.
Then I got some Panaflow ultra quiet medium speed fans. These are MUCH
better. I'm wishing I'd gotten the low speed versions, because with 4 fans
I don't think I need to move that much air. The next noisiest fans are the
cpu fans and I'm not going to bother with them, they are OEM P3s with heat
sinks riveted on.

As far as shutting drives down, isn't there software that will let you spin
down individual drives? I know Adaptec Easy SCSI used to do this.


Thanks for the reply.

My next case will be the Antec Sonata, designed for quiet, has special
drive bays with rubber mounts. I'll have one fast drive for the OS and
apps, and use 300GB / 5400 rpm drives for the remainder of my storage
needs. I'm quite happy using a Maxtor 160GB 5400 rpm drive for my MP3s and
MST3K videos. I have the 7200 rpm version as well from Costco because it
was so cheap and I needed space at the time. The IBM GXP 22GB run the
hotest, but prir to that I had a Seagate Medalist 7200 rpm 9GB and that ran
extremely hot, one of their first 7200 rpm ATA drives, back from 1998.

I tried to clean things up with round cables but it really wasn't much
better so I went back to ribbon cables. I also was concerned about error
rates for long (36") round cables as I was seeing some unusual pauses on
drive access which are now gone.

It would be nice to go all SATA at some point just to clean up the cabling
and improve the airflow. Right now I have it set up for front bottom
intake to top rear exhaust but the drive cabling gets in the way.


Cobblers! <me RemoveThis @here.invalid> wrote in
news:emdtrvc02pg6i8mkdpvh8akv840rfne8p0@4ax.com:

 > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:16:35 GMT, "Mr. Grinch" <grinch RemoveThis @hatespam.yucky>
 > wrote:
 >
  >>I'm interested in any responses you get. I'm thinking I'd like to go
  >>SATA just to clean up my drive cabling, as I have 5 ATA hard drives
 >
 > I bet that's a noisy setup. I went to a mobile rack so I can run as
 > many OS's as I want and only have to have one HD running at a time.
 > Cuts down on the noise pollution considerably.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Cobblers

External


Since: Nov 19, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:56 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:06:18 GMT, "Mr. Grinch" <grinch RemoveThis @hatespam.yucky>
wrote:

 >You know, it IS a noisy setup, but the drives weren't the worst offenders.
 >
 >The case has a lot of fans. I've got two intake fans in front, one of them
 >in front of the hard drives, one below. I've got two exhaust fans behind
 >the cpus. There is a fan on each of the cpus, one on the video card, plus
 >the power supply.
 >
 >I replaced the case fans with ball bearing fans but it didn't help much.
 >Then I got some Panaflow ultra quiet medium speed fans. These are MUCH
 >better. I'm wishing I'd gotten the low speed versions, because with 4 fans
 >I don't think I need to move that much air.

Get some Fanmates from Zalman. They cut the voltage to 5v so they run
at about half the rpm. I use one on the front fan but when I used one
on a Vantec Stealth fan the thing was hardly turning so took it off.


 >As far as shutting drives down, isn't there software that will let you spin
 >down individual drives? I know Adaptec Easy SCSI used to do this.

I looked for something like that and came up empty. I see there is Mac
software available that can do this but I couldn't find any PC
software that does the same. The stuff built into Windows is no good
because it controls all the drives and is not selectable for each
drive.

I have this one older Maxtor drive that is too noisy and have found
the Mobile rack is preferable to using more than one drive at once.
Plus the casing for the rack helps insulate the noise. I've put the
Maxtor in a second PC I'm building for now and am looking to get a
120gb Seagate Barracuda or one of those Samsung drives that are
supposed to be quiet.

Powersupplies can be a noise nuisance too and I bought one of those
Zalman 400w's to cut that back. But the Sonata case you are getting
already comes with a 380w quiet PSU.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mr. Grinch

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 95



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Just wanted to say thanks for the tips, much appreciated!


Cobblers! <me.RemoveThis@here.invalid> wrote in
news:mfi0svs2f3huvl47bh852u1np0ms37qr3f@4ax.com:

 >
 > Get some Fanmates from Zalman. They cut the voltage to 5v so they run
 > at about half the rpm. I use one on the front fan but when I used one
 > on a Vantec Stealth fan the thing was hardly turning so took it off.
 >
 >
 > Powersupplies can be a noise nuisance too and I bought one of those
 > Zalman 400w's to cut that back. But the Sonata case you are getting
 > already comes with a 380w quiet PSU.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Cobblers

External


Since: Nov 19, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Move to SATA [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:06:18 GMT, "Mr. Grinch" <grinch DeleteThis @hatespam.yucky>
wrote:


 >I tried to clean things up with round cables but it really wasn't much
 >better so I went back to ribbon cables. I also was concerned about error
 >rates for long (36") round cables as I was seeing some unusual pauses on
 >drive access which are now gone.

Ooh yea, 36" is way too long. 18" is supposed to be the max standard
for HDD's. But *good quality* 24" cables are ok too.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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