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Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:04 am
Post subject: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>chips, others (more info?)
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External
Since: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 780
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:38 pm
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 Mar 2004 06:04:46 -0800, news.yaya.bbbl67.TakeThisOut@spamgourmet.com (Black
Jack) wrote:
>http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3331601
>
>NEC seems to think it's going to need the LongRun technology to be
>able to run their chips once they enter the 90, 65, and 45 nm process
>nodes. There was also a rumour that Intel was looking at this
>technology sometime back too. Intel might need it if it doesn't want
>to adopt SOI.
My take on this is that the main thing NEC was after was the dynamic
threshold voltage transistors that Transmeta announced a little while
back. Interesting technology, though I wouldn't be surprised if
Intel, AMD and IBM are able to get the same sort of design without
licensing Transmeta IP (of course, there will probably be some kind of
lawsuit on it's way with regards to this).
This doesn't really have that much of anything to do with SOI, except
for the idea of reducing leakage current. Either way, Intel is
planning on using SOI in the future, just not quite the same type of
SOI that AMD and IBM are currently using.
Ugg.. I gotta grip about one line in the linked article though:
<quoting>
Enderle says it was Transmeta that woke Intel up, and the result was
their ARM-based chip architecture initiatives: Pentium M and Centrino.
Both chips are purpose-built for mobile devices and laptop computers.
<end quote>
WTF?!?! And they pay this guy money for this totally incorrect trash?
First off they're talking about Centrino as if it's a chip rather than
the marketing campaign that it is, but what in the hell are they doing
mentioning ARM in there?! ARM has absolutely ZERO to do with either
the Pentium-M processor or the Centrino marketing effort! X-Scale,
yes; Centrino, no.
Actually I think maybe the anal-yst may have had it right here and
it's just the author of the article that completely misunderstood
things and mixed everything up. Still, such blatant errors that could
have been fixed with about 10 seconds of fact-checking really don't
lead to much confidence.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:38:25 -0500, Tony Hill
<hilla_nospam_20.RemoveThis@yahoo.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Ugg.. I gotta grip about one line in the linked article though:
>
><quoting>
>Enderle says it was Transmeta that woke Intel up, and the result was
>their ARM-based chip architecture initiatives: Pentium M and Centrino.
>Both chips are purpose-built for mobile devices and laptop computers.
><end quote>
>
>WTF?!?! And they pay this guy money for this totally incorrect trash?
>First off they're talking about Centrino as if it's a chip rather than
>the marketing campaign that it is, but what in the hell are they doing
>mentioning ARM in there?! ARM has absolutely ZERO to do with either
>the Pentium-M processor or the Centrino marketing effort! X-Scale,
>yes; Centrino, no.
>
Before you wig out completely and/or I google myself blind trying to
figure out things I only halfway understand, maybe you or someone else
would want to take a look at
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newswireless.net/articles/031015-transmeta.html" target="_blank">http://www.newswireless.net/articles/031015-transmeta.html</a>
and offer any comments that come to mind. The only relationship that
ARM has with Centrino that is relevant to the article may be a common
threat from Efficeon. The future is x86. The future is mobile. The
future is low power.
"Nobody is going to launch a pocket PC to take seriously, based on
Windows and X86," the article says. Okay, how about Linux and x86?
And just because the display in your pocket PC is less than dazzling
doesn't mean it will stay that way when you get to your desk. Walk
around with your *real* PC in your pocket, plug it into a real display
and keyboard when you're able to, and live with a munchkin display
when you can't? Sounds more attractive than laplink, briefcase, and
file synchonization and whatever other half-assed solutions there are
that allow you to split your time and your attention between a pocket
device and/or a laptop device and your "real" PC.
RM
RM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology |
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Since: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 780
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:17:28 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers.DeleteThis@rustuck.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:38:25 -0500, Tony Hill
><hilla_nospam_20.DeleteThis@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>>Ugg.. I gotta grip about one line in the linked article though:
>>
>><quoting>
>>Enderle says it was Transmeta that woke Intel up, and the result was
>>their ARM-based chip architecture initiatives: Pentium M and Centrino.
>>Both chips are purpose-built for mobile devices and laptop computers.
>><end quote>
>>
>>WTF?!?! And they pay this guy money for this totally incorrect trash?
>>First off they're talking about Centrino as if it's a chip rather than
>>the marketing campaign that it is, but what in the hell are they doing
>>mentioning ARM in there?! ARM has absolutely ZERO to do with either
>>the Pentium-M processor or the Centrino marketing effort! X-Scale,
>>yes; Centrino, no.
>>
>
>Before you wig out completely and/or I google myself blind trying to
>figure out things I only halfway understand, maybe you or someone else
>would want to take a look at
>
>http://www.newswireless.net/articles/031015-transmeta.html
>
>and offer any comments that come to mind. The only relationship that
>ARM has with Centrino that is relevant to the article may be a common
>threat from Efficeon. The future is x86. The future is mobile. The
>future is low power.
.... and the future is not here yet. :>
>"Nobody is going to launch a pocket PC to take seriously, based on
>Windows and X86," the article says. Okay, how about Linux and x86?
Not any time too soon. The chips used in palm-top systems (almost all
ARM these days) consume a maximum of 500mW of power. That's an order
of magnitude less than the lowest powered chips that Transmeta makes.
Even VIA, who has some chips that consume a max of only 3W of power is
not at all in the running, let alone Intel's who's lowest powered x86
chip consumes 7W.
>And just because the display in your pocket PC is less than dazzling
>doesn't mean it will stay that way when you get to your desk. Walk
>around with your *real* PC in your pocket, plug it into a real display
>and keyboard when you're able to, and live with a munchkin display
>when you can't? Sounds more attractive than laplink, briefcase, and
>file synchonization and whatever other half-assed solutions there are
>that allow you to split your time and your attention between a pocket
>device and/or a laptop device and your "real" PC.
Maybe someday, but that day is several years away at the very least.
The ultraportable and tablet PC market where Intel competes with
Transmeta, and the palm-top computing market where the X-Scale and
other ARM chips live are two very different markets at this time.
Many years into the future (probably at least 5, which is an eternity
in computerland) they may merge, but not today.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:41:14 -0500, Tony Hill
<hilla_nospam_20.TakeThisOut@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:17:28 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers.TakeThisOut@rustuck.com>
>wrote:
>>The future is x86. The future is mobile. The
>>future is low power.
>
>... and the future is not here yet. :>
>
>>"Nobody is going to launch a pocket PC to take seriously, based on
>>Windows and X86," the article says. Okay, how about Linux and x86?
>
>Not any time too soon. The chips used in palm-top systems (almost all
>ARM these days) consume a maximum of 500mW of power. That's an order
>of magnitude less than the lowest powered chips that Transmeta makes.
>Even VIA, who has some chips that consume a max of only 3W of power is
>not at all in the running, let alone Intel's who's lowest powered x86
>chip consumes 7W.
>
The future may not be _quite_ as far off as you estimate:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/27380201.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/27380201.pdf</a>
400MHz Ultra Low Voltage Mobile Celeron on 0.13micron process, typical
power 3.4W, maximum power 4.23W. As to performance, if you can live
with a 1Ghz Via Nehemia, you can probably live with the 400MHz ULV
Mobile Celeron:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/TollyTS203124IntelCeleronSept2003.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/TollyTS203124IntelCeleronSept2003.pdf</a>
The power budget is close enough to an order of magnitude more than
the 500mW you quote for a palm-top system, but the September, 2003
study commissioned by Intel would seem to indicate that Intel means
business.
I don't own or use a PDA, but the step that would get me interested
would be more a matter of software than hardware. I have too many
different things to explain to too many different people and systems
to be constantly explaining to my PDA what it's relationship is to my
"real" computer, a problem I already have with my laptop.
Your five year timeline may be right (I think it is pessimistic), but
a pocket x86 PC is where the world is headed.
RM<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology |
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Since: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 780
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:15:07 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers.DeleteThis@rustuck.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:41:14 -0500, Tony Hill
><hilla_nospam_20.DeleteThis@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:17:28 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers.DeleteThis@rustuck.com>
>>wrote:
>
>>>The future is x86. The future is mobile. The
>>>future is low power.
>>
>>... and the future is not here yet. :>
>>
>>>"Nobody is going to launch a pocket PC to take seriously, based on
>>>Windows and X86," the article says. Okay, how about Linux and x86?
>>
>>Not any time too soon. The chips used in palm-top systems (almost all
>>ARM these days) consume a maximum of 500mW of power. That's an order
>>of magnitude less than the lowest powered chips that Transmeta makes.
>>Even VIA, who has some chips that consume a max of only 3W of power is
>>not at all in the running, let alone Intel's who's lowest powered x86
>>chip consumes 7W.
>>
>
>The future may not be _quite_ as far off as you estimate:
>
>http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/27380201.pdf
>
>400MHz Ultra Low Voltage Mobile Celeron on 0.13micron process, typical
>power 3.4W, maximum power 4.23W. As to performance, if you can live
>with a 1Ghz Via Nehemia, you can probably live with the 400MHz ULV
>Mobile Celeron:
For a palm-top system I'd rather live with a 520MHz ARM chip consuming
only 500mW.
>http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/TollyTS203124IntelCeleronSept2003.pdf
>
>The power budget is close enough to an order of magnitude more than
>the 500mW you quote for a palm-top system, but the September, 2003
>study commissioned by Intel would seem to indicate that Intel means
>business.
They still aren't even close. These power consumption figures are
fine and dandy for a ultra-portable or tablet PC, but they just aren't
going to cut it on a palm-top. They really need to get power down to
under 1W before they can start competing.
>I don't own or use a PDA, but the step that would get me interested
>would be more a matter of software than hardware. I have too many
>different things to explain to too many different people and systems
>to be constantly explaining to my PDA what it's relationship is to my
>"real" computer, a problem I already have with my laptop.
>
>Your five year timeline may be right (I think it is pessimistic), but
>a pocket x86 PC is where the world is headed.
Could be, but I still stick with my 5 year time-line. They aren't
close now and a 50% drop in power isn't going to get them there. Even
the lowest powered x86 chips still need at least a 75% drop in power
consumption before they can really start to compete. Of course, when
they get there, you then have to ask "is it worth it?". ARM chips
perform reasonably well, they are manufactured by everyone+dog and
they are dirt-cheap. Are the advantages of x86 really that great?
Given the very small screen used for palm-top systems, as well as the
lack of a keyboard, often times the GUI needs to be redesigned for
them anyway. If you need to support two different versions of the
software anyway, just how much of an advantage is it if they both use
the same processor?
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology |
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Since: Mar 14, 2004
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:15:07 -0500) it happened Robert Myers
<rmyers DeleteThis @rustuck.com> wrote in <q5n960dtuqt9l8vvl9ibgclk121shnj2po DeleteThis @4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:41:14 -0500, Tony Hill
><hilla_nospam_20 DeleteThis @yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:17:28 -0500, Robert Myers <rmyers DeleteThis @rustuck.com>
>>wrote:
>
>>>The future is x86. The future is mobile. The
>>>future is low power.
>>
>>... and the future is not here yet. :>
>>
>>>"Nobody is going to launch a pocket PC to take seriously, based on
>>>Windows and X86," the article says. Okay, how about Linux and x86?
>>
>>Not any time too soon. The chips used in palm-top systems (almost all
>>ARM these days) consume a maximum of 500mW of power. That's an order
>>of magnitude less than the lowest powered chips that Transmeta makes.
>>Even VIA, who has some chips that consume a max of only 3W of power is
>>not at all in the running, let alone Intel's who's lowest powered x86
>>chip consumes 7W.
>>
>
>The future may not be _quite_ as far off as you estimate:
>
>http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/designgd/27380201.pdf
>
>400MHz Ultra Low Voltage Mobile Celeron on 0.13micron process, typical
>power 3.4W, maximum power 4.23W. As to performance, if you can live
>with a 1Ghz Via Nehemia, you can probably live with the 400MHz ULV
>Mobile Celeron:
>
>http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/TollyTS203124IntelCeleronSept2003.pdf
>
>The power budget is close enough to an order of magnitude more than
>the 500mW you quote for a palm-top system, but the September, 2003
>study commissioned by Intel would seem to indicate that Intel means
>business.
>
>I don't own or use a PDA, but the step that would get me interested
>would be more a matter of software than hardware. I have too many
>different things to explain to too many different people and systems
>to be constantly explaining to my PDA what it's relationship is to my
>"real" computer, a problem I already have with my laptop.
>
>Your five year timeline may be right (I think it is pessimistic), but
>a pocket x86 PC is where the world is headed.
>
>RM
I think we also see a trend to make cellphones into PDAs, and with UTMS here
that may become very interesting.
I do not have a PDA either, but my cellphone can do most a PDA does, plus
has a camera, the new ones you can use as memo recorder, and can even record
avi video.
Mine communicates with the PC via IRDA, the newer ones do Blue tooth.
So maybe PDA is dead, long live the cellphone?
Of cause mine has WAP, email, and I can do my banking via it..
Ad the battery lasts a week or so..
Anyone here been at the Cebit in Germany?
Just curious what the next thing is:-)
JP
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: NEC buys into Transmeta and Longrun technology |
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