PC freeze playing MOHAA

"Grumps" <grummps.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60e2bnF1qrpcnU1@mid.individual.net...
> Grumps wrote:
>> Sleepy wrote:
>>> "Grumps" <grumpsnothere.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:60b44lF1qe0ptU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> There is a Microsoft article (KB327809) that covers a known issue "Cannot
> Run Certain Programs on Hyper-Threaded or Dual-Processor Computers with a
> CPU Speed of Greater Than 2 GHz". So maybe stopping the hyperthreading is
> a good test.
>
> Still doesn't explain why the old nVidia card is ok though.

There are plenty of people running MOHAA on a dual core PC over 2GHz. I'm
one of them, so thats not directly the problem. Haven't replied before now,
because I've not had anything useful to add! 2 quick thoughts:

1. Have you tried a simple re-install of the game? Perhaps a file is
corrupted.
2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access. Check the list of
programs enabled for access in your firewall software. If you can't get to
the list, a long way round is this: Enable hibernate on your PC and set it
to hibernate when you press the power button. Then get MOHAA to the 'broken'
state and press the power button to hibernate the PC. When you restart, it
will go to the windows desktop, where you will see the firewall software
asking of the MOHAA.exe can access the local machine or local network (or
something along those lines).
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

GT wrote:
> "Grumps" <grummps.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:60e2bnF1qrpcnU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Grumps wrote:
>>> Sleepy wrote:
>>>> "Grumps" <grumpsnothere.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:60b44lF1qe0ptU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> There is a Microsoft article (KB327809) that covers a known issue
>> "Cannot Run Certain Programs on Hyper-Threaded or Dual-Processor
>> Computers with a CPU Speed of Greater Than 2 GHz". So maybe stopping
>> the hyperthreading is a good test.
>>
>> Still doesn't explain why the old nVidia card is ok though.
>
> There are plenty of people running MOHAA on a dual core PC over 2GHz.
> I'm one of them, so thats not directly the problem. Haven't replied
> before now, because I've not had anything useful to add! 2 quick
> thoughts:
> 1. Have you tried a simple re-install of the game? Perhaps a file is
> corrupted.

Thanks. Yep, did that.

> 2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access.

I didn't know firewalls restricted local disk access. I can add it to the
exclusion list though or switch it off. It's only the resident Windows
firewall.

> Check the
> list of programs enabled for access in your firewall software. If you
> can't get to the list, a long way round is this: Enable hibernate on
> your PC and set it to hibernate when you press the power button. Then
> get MOHAA to the 'broken' state and press the power button to
> hibernate the PC.

When it gets to the broken state, the screen freezes, then after a few
seconds it'll go black, and the monitor switches off. The PC can only be
power cycled.

> When you restart, it will go to the windows
> desktop, where you will see the firewall software asking of the
> MOHAA.exe can access the local machine or local network (or something
> along those lines).

I still can't understand why the nVidia card allows normal play, but the ATI
one doesn't.

If ever I find the cause, I'll be sure to post it here.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

[trimmed]
>> 2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access.
>
> I didn't know firewalls restricted local disk access. I can add it to the
> exclusion list though or switch it off. It's only the resident Windows
> firewall.

No, firewalls don't restrict local disk access, but i just thought that
perhaps it has got into a pickle and thinks the drive it is trying to read
is on a network. Are the files loaded and saved locally, or have you setup a
network drive, or even an external drive perhaps?

>> Check the
>> list of programs enabled for access in your firewall software. If you
>> can't get to the list, a long way round is this: Enable hibernate on
>> your PC and set it to hibernate when you press the power button. Then
>> get MOHAA to the 'broken' state and press the power button to
>> hibernate the PC.
>
> When it gets to the broken state, the screen freezes, then after a few
> seconds it'll go black, and the monitor switches off. The PC can only be
> power cycled.

When the PC 'freezes' try pressing the numlock key a few times. If the
numlock light on the keyboard doesn't change, then the PC is truely
crashed/hung, but if the light still changes, then the PC is still alive and
only the game has crashed - try doing Ctrl-Escape to get back to windows and
see if there are any useful message boxes sitting on the desktop.

>> When you restart, it will go to the windows
>> desktop, where you will see the firewall software asking of the
>> MOHAA.exe can access the local machine or local network (or something
>> along those lines).
>
> I still can't understand why the nVidia card allows normal play, but the
> ATI one doesn't.

As suggested elsewhere - this has to be driver or file related. Not
necessarily the graphics card driver - there may be other files involved,
like DLLs in the game. Although a re-install should have sorted that out, so
sm still not any help! Have you tried to patch the game? I know there are
various patches and updates for MOHAA.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"VanguardLH" <V DeleteThis @nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:9OadnRSizoPcAjzanZ2dnUVZ_qSonZ2d@comcast.com...
> "Grumps" <grumpsnothere DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:60cehqF1q9fuaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "VanguardLH" <V DeleteThis @nguard.LH> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Does MOHAA say that it supports being played under Windows XP?
>>
>> Yes, 2000/95/98/Me/XP.
>
> Then try booting Windows into its Safe Mode and make sure that the
> anti-virus doesn't run in Safe Mode or you disable it (and any other
> security or anti-malware programs). That's about a clean an
> environment you will get without having to do a fresh install of
> Windows. That's assuming the game will play under Safe Mode. Some
> won't.


I forgot to ask: Does MOHAA let you select whether to use OpenGL or
DirectX? If so, have you tried running it using DirectX instead of
OpenGL?
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

GT wrote:
> [trimmed]
>>> 2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access.
>>
>> I didn't know firewalls restricted local disk access. I can add it
>> to the exclusion list though or switch it off. It's only the
>> resident Windows firewall.
>
> No, firewalls don't restrict local disk access, but i just thought
> that perhaps it has got into a pickle and thinks the drive it is
> trying to read is on a network. Are the files loaded and saved
> locally, or have you setup a network drive, or even an external drive
> perhaps?

It's all local.
[trimmed]
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"Grumps" <grummps.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60e9hvF1pst85U1@mid.individual.net...
> GT wrote:
>> [trimmed]
>>>> 2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access.
>>>
>>> I didn't know firewalls restricted local disk access. I can add it
>>> to the exclusion list though or switch it off. It's only the
>>> resident Windows firewall.
>>
>> No, firewalls don't restrict local disk access, but i just thought
>> that perhaps it has got into a pickle and thinks the drive it is
>> trying to read is on a network. Are the files loaded and saved
>> locally, or have you setup a network drive, or even an external drive
>> perhaps?
>
> It's all local.

Must be file related then - either video driver, or a MOHAA system file.
Elliminate these things in the easiest order. Patch the game first, then
mess about with video drivers, but the game isn't that old and I run both it
and Wolfenstein without any difficulty on both my old Ati card and my newer
nVidia card (same PC otherwise).
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:29 -0000, "Grumps"
<grumpsnothere.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:


>There is nothing (that helps) in the event log(s). The PC just dies.

A better description of _exactly_ what the system does might
have been helpful, since it doesn't actually die it does
some other thing whether that be freeze up (then what is on
the display?) or reset or power off or ??
Regardless, my next comment makes this fairly unimportant.


>I agree, there may not be a working driver for this card to enable this game
>to run; but there must surely be a fix/workaround somewhere.
>It's so strange that starting this game from the beginning will result in
>normal play. Only when loading a saved game does it cause a freeze a short
>while later.
>
>The graphics card manufacturer says it is almost certainly an EA fault as
>the card works fine with everything else.

Because it only freezes when loading a saved game this is
definitely a game flaw, not video card or power, etc.
Either don't save games anymore or keep checking back on a
game patch, and be sure the game developer knows about this
problem. Also search and ask about possible solutions in
gaming forums. I don't know if that developer has their own
(web) forum but that would be one of the first places to
start looking and asking.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"VanguardLH" <V.TakeThisOut@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:hcmdnWu76q6-kT_anZ2dnUVZ_q2hnZ2d@comcast.com...
> "VanguardLH" <V.TakeThisOut@nguard.LH> wrote in message
> news:9OadnRSizoPcAjzanZ2dnUVZ_qSonZ2d@comcast.com...
>> "Grumps" <grumpsnothere.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:60cehqF1q9fuaU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "VanguardLH" <V.TakeThisOut@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> Does MOHAA say that it supports being played under Windows XP?
>>>
>>> Yes, 2000/95/98/Me/XP.
>>
>> Then try booting Windows into its Safe Mode and make sure that the
>> anti-virus doesn't run in Safe Mode or you disable it (and any other
>> security or anti-malware programs). That's about a clean an environment
>> you will get without having to do a fresh install of Windows. That's
>> assuming the game will play under Safe Mode. Some won't.
>
>
> I forgot to ask: Does MOHAA let you select whether to use OpenGL or
> DirectX? If so, have you tried running it using DirectX instead of
> OpenGL?

I haven't seen that option, but I'll take another look.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"GT" <ContactGT_remove_.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:01a0ad81$0$18944$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> "Grumps" <grummps.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:60e9hvF1pst85U1@mid.individual.net...
>> GT wrote:
>>> [trimmed]
>>>>> 2. Perhaps your firewall is preventing local disk access.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't know firewalls restricted local disk access. I can add it
>>>> to the exclusion list though or switch it off. It's only the
>>>> resident Windows firewall.
>>>
>>> No, firewalls don't restrict local disk access, but i just thought
>>> that perhaps it has got into a pickle and thinks the drive it is
>>> trying to read is on a network. Are the files loaded and saved
>>> locally, or have you setup a network drive, or even an external drive
>>> perhaps?
>>
>> It's all local.
>
> Must be file related then - either video driver, or a MOHAA system file.
> Elliminate these things in the easiest order. Patch the game first, then
> mess about with video drivers, but the game isn't that old and I run both
> it and Wolfenstein without any difficulty on both my old Ati card and my
> newer nVidia card (same PC otherwise).

Games is patched to latest from EA.

It's not the PSU as I just replaced this with a 500W Seasonic.
And it's not hyperthreading as I just turned of one of the CPUs.

Next, drivers....
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"kony" <spam DeleteThis @spam.com> wrote in message
news:i2c4q31irmk54eel82c09b1fss8bb0553o@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:29 -0000, "Grumps"
> <grumpsnothere DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>There is nothing (that helps) in the event log(s). The PC just dies.
>
> A better description of _exactly_ what the system does might
> have been helpful, since it doesn't actually die it does
> some other thing whether that be freeze up (then what is on
> the display?)

Sorry, I thought I'd mentioned what happens.
All other games play fine.
This game (MOH:AA) plays, from the beginning, without fault.
Loading a saved game will result, after about 30s (or sometimes longer), in
a system freeze. The screen freezes, the sound plays (in a loop), after a
few seconds the screen will go black and video output stops. This PC does
not have a reset button, so it has to be power-cycled.

> or reset or power off or ??
> Regardless, my next comment makes this fairly unimportant.
>
>
>>I agree, there may not be a working driver for this card to enable this
>>game
>>to run; but there must surely be a fix/workaround somewhere.
>>It's so strange that starting this game from the beginning will result in
>>normal play. Only when loading a saved game does it cause a freeze a short
>>while later.
>>
>>The graphics card manufacturer says it is almost certainly an EA fault as
>>the card works fine with everything else.
>
> Because it only freezes when loading a saved game this is
> definitely a game flaw, not video card or power, etc.
> Either don't save games anymore or keep checking back on a
> game patch,

I have the latest patch. I know (from other replies here) that this game
should work ok in my type of system configuration.

> and be sure the game developer knows about this
> problem.

They certainly do. So far they've requested the results of running dxdiag.

> Also search and ask about possible solutions in
> gaming forums. I don't know if that developer has their own
> (web) forum but that would be one of the first places to
> start looking and asking.

Thanks. I'll give that a try.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"Grumps" <grumpsnothere.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60eskkF1qe7hmU1@mid.individual.net...
> "kony" <spam.RemoveThis@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:i2c4q31irmk54eel82c09b1fss8bb0553o@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:29 -0000, "Grumps"
>> <grumpsnothere.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

<trimmed>

>> Also search and ask about possible solutions in
>> gaming forums. I don't know if that developer has their own
>> (web) forum but that would be one of the first places to
>> start looking and asking.
>
> Thanks. I'll give that a try.

Wow! There are so many people having issues (or had issues) with MOH:AA.
One comment on a forum gave a new atioglxx.dll file that should be placed in
the game's root. This has been mentioned in this thread too. So I thought
I'd give that a try.

Now, this PC's windows\system32 has atioglx2.dll and opengl32.dll, but no
ati*.dll in the game's root.
I put this old atioglxx.dll in the game's root, and (just to be sure)
renamed the windows\system32 relevant dlls so they wouldn't be found. I
noticed that opengl32.dll cannot be deleted; well, you can delete it, but it
comes right back!

Running MOH results in a message saying that the opengl system could not
initialise. The only way to make it get past this stage was to put the
atioglxx.dll back in windows\system32 (putting the old atioglxx.dll here
makes no difference) - so I conlcude that (on my PC) MOH never looks in its
root for atioglxx.dll.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:00:43 -0000, "Grumps"
<grumpsnothere DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Grumps" <grumpsnothere DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:60eskkF1qe7hmU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "kony" <spam DeleteThis @spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:i2c4q31irmk54eel82c09b1fss8bb0553o@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:29 -0000, "Grumps"
>>> <grumpsnothere DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
><trimmed>
>
>>> Also search and ask about possible solutions in
>>> gaming forums. I don't know if that developer has their own
>>> (web) forum but that would be one of the first places to
>>> start looking and asking.
>>
>> Thanks. I'll give that a try.
>
>Wow! There are so many people having issues (or had issues) with MOH:AA.
>One comment on a forum gave a new atioglxx.dll file that should be placed in
>the game's root. This has been mentioned in this thread too. So I thought
>I'd give that a try.
>
>Now, this PC's windows\system32 has atioglx2.dll and opengl32.dll, but no
>ati*.dll in the game's root.
>I put this old atioglxx.dll in the game's root, and (just to be sure)
>renamed the windows\system32 relevant dlls so they wouldn't be found. I
>noticed that opengl32.dll cannot be deleted; well, you can delete it, but it
>comes right back!

To do this effectively you can either temporarily disable
windows file protection, or the easier way is before you
delete or rename the file you want to be rid of, first put
the old file in the system32/dllcache folder, which is where
windows first looks for a backup copy of the file it's
restoring, so having replaced the file there you can delete
the \system32 file and it'll copy the older one you want.

However I'm not clear about why you need to hide the files
in the system32 folder at all, wasn't the point of putting
the driver file in the game root folder such that it
wouldn't need to be changed elsewhere?


>
>Running MOH results in a message saying that the opengl system could not
>initialise. The only way to make it get past this stage was to put the
>atioglxx.dll back in windows\system32 (putting the old atioglxx.dll here
>makes no difference) - so I conlcude that (on my PC) MOH never looks in its
>root for atioglxx.dll.

I don't know, you might ask the person who posted that in
the forum.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA 

"kony" <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> wrote in message
news:bi75q3hm50hdslqk8gkicqtlf8u9nnp6uv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:00:43 -0000, "Grumps"
> <grumpsnothere RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Grumps" <grumpsnothere RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:60eskkF1qe7hmU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "kony" <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:i2c4q31irmk54eel82c09b1fss8bb0553o@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:29 -0000, "Grumps"
>>>> <grumpsnothere RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>><trimmed>
>>
>>>> Also search and ask about possible solutions in
>>>> gaming forums. I don't know if that developer has their own
>>>> (web) forum but that would be one of the first places to
>>>> start looking and asking.
>>>
>>> Thanks. I'll give that a try.
>>
>>Wow! There are so many people having issues (or had issues) with MOH:AA.
>>One comment on a forum gave a new atioglxx.dll file that should be placed
>>in
>>the game's root. This has been mentioned in this thread too. So I thought
>>I'd give that a try.
>>
>>Now, this PC's windows\system32 has atioglx2.dll and opengl32.dll, but no
>>ati*.dll in the game's root.
>>I put this old atioglxx.dll in the game's root, and (just to be sure)
>>renamed the windows\system32 relevant dlls so they wouldn't be found. I
>>noticed that opengl32.dll cannot be deleted; well, you can delete it, but
>>it
>>comes right back!
>
> To do this effectively you can either temporarily disable
> windows file protection, or the easier way is before you
> delete or rename the file you want to be rid of, first put
> the old file in the system32/dllcache folder, which is where
> windows first looks for a backup copy of the file it's
> restoring, so having replaced the file there you can delete
> the \system32 file and it'll copy the older one you want.

Ah, thanks. I saw a file copy in the dllcache folder. Wondered what that was
for.

> However I'm not clear about why you need to hide the files
> in the system32 folder at all, wasn't the point of putting
> the driver file in the game root folder such that it
> wouldn't need to be changed elsewhere?

That's correct, but it was obvious that the file in the game's root folder
was not being used. So this was my attempt to hide the win\sys32 files to
force the game to use its root dll.
 >> Stay informed about: PC freeze playing MOHAA