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pcpilot

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Since: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:35 pm
Post subject: Power Up Issues
Archived from groups: alt>comp>periphs>mainboard>abit (more info?)
Have just noticed this Abit forum so have reposted from computer help
desk as I suspect this may be Abit BH6 v1.0 specific.

I have recently built a new system (P4 550 3.4 Ghz, AA8XE 3rd Eye
etc....) and determined to recommission my old system for my
girlfriend.

Whilst the new system functioned virtually problem free, I was
surprised that the few hardware/software changes to the original
system seemingly created a frustrating problem Crying or Very sad

To explain, the original system was a Pentium III 1.4 Ghz Tualatin
Celeron(utilising a Powerleap Adapter with Coolermaster CPU Fan) on
an Abit BH6 Motherboard with 512MB PC133 SDRAM (2 sticks - limited by
Win 98SE), Enermax 450W PSU, IBM Deskstar 120Gb and Maxtor 12.5Gb IDE
hard disks, 3D Blaster 4 Ti4600 AGP Graphics Card, Creative Audigy 2
Sound Card, Hauppauge Win TV Radio PCI, Acorp 4203U Ultra SCSI PCI
Adapter Card and 2 X Pace Fax/Voice/Data ISA Modems. In addition both
serial ports were configured to independent IRQ addresses from the 2
modems, and USB 1.0 was configured though the parallel port was
disabled (in order to eak the most out of the IRQ's without
conflict). The operating system was Win 98SE.

In the above configuration (over speced (though not overclocked)
considerably beyond the original design parameters of the BH6
**excellent board** ) the system was super stable and performed
adequately until hardware limitations (new software requirements)
brought on the new build.

The SCSI card was removed, the Hard Disks fully formated and Win 98SE
reinstalled on the system.........no problems. Windows XP Home was
then installed to the existing clean OS, RAM increased to the maximum
of 768 Mb in 3 sticks, a Linksys Wireless G PCI Adapter with
Speedbooster added and a Belkin Blue Tooth Desktop configured now the
system refuses to power up inside 6 - 10 attempts (neither via on
switch, reset button or unplugging power) though eventually it will
boot (sometimes freezing and requiring further resets). Once windows
XP splash screen appears all is well and the system runs stabley
until shutdown (or restart) when the whole tedious business begins
once more Confused

Sorry for the lengthy preamble but I wished to demonstrate that the
underlying system, though running at its limits, is essentially
stable. The initial power up (and sometimes restarts) however present
a frustrating problem. Could this be XP related? Memory related
(though all memory chips have been swapped and run back at 512MB
resulting in same problem)?............or hardware related, dry
joint, loose connection, component failure, damaged wire etc?

All/any thoughts/help/ideas welcome Idea !!

ps. I have a separate problem with the Linksys card which whilst
installed correctly carries the dreaded yellow exclamation mark in
device manager. This problem is unrelated to the above as the above
problems continue with the card removed and drivers uninstalled. Will
make a separate post on this issue.

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richh

External


Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 394



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:35 am
Post subject: Re: Power Up Issues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"pcpilot" wrote in message ...
 > The initial power up (and sometimes restarts) however present
 > a frustrating problem. Could this be XP related?

When you say it takes six to ten attempts to start the system, do you mean
that it takes six to ten attempts to even get the system to POST?

If so, you can rule out the OS as the primary cause with a high degree of
confidence.

Again, if it takes multiple attempts even to get the system to POST, chances
are it's either a hardware conflict (have you tried removing all the
installed cards bar graphics?), or a hardware failure.

In the latter case, check the smoothing capacitors (the electrolytic, mainly
1500uF caps) around the CPU slot for signs of leakage, domed heads or other
distortion. It might also be worth trying an alternative PSU if you've yet
to do so.

Unfortunately, there's been some evidence in the past to suggest that long
term use of a Tualatin CPU in an earlier board can in itself cause problems,
as the slightly different bus voltage requirements can slowly degrade both
the processor and the northbridge. Again, if you have an alternative CPU to
try, that might give you some pointers as to the cause of the problem.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dabs.com" target="_blank">www.dabs.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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pcpilot

External


Since: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Power Up Issues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Thanks ever so much for your constructive post Richard and please
excuse my ignorance in the response below as my knowledge is somewhat
limited as you can probably tell Smile

I am presuming that the POST actions to which you refer are the normal
boot (generaly with a beep) to BIOS which is indeed the point at which
the problems occur....though randomly, the extent to which the process
is completed does vary from total lack of response at boot to a freeze
during the display of peripheral devices a little later in the cycle.
Is my understanding of POST correct?

On occasions a 'windows failed to start normally' message is presented
however selecting start normally will complete the start to the
Windows XP desktop. Could this indicate involvement of the OS?

The BIOS settings have not been changed in the limited rebuild hence
my reference to the principle changes being removal of the SCSI card,
addition of third memory stick and installation of XP Home.

Once running the system is as stable as ever aside from the failure of
the Wireless Adapter card (see other post) installed in place of the
SCSI card.

As you have pointed me in the direction of hardware especially in the
region of the CPU slot I will also remove and reinsert the Powerleap
adapter in case the slot to adapter connections have been disturbed
in the rebuild. Whilst doing so I will inspect those smoothing caps
for damage.

Perhaps misguidedly, I had considered a hardware conflict unlikely
given the trouble free operation of the system pre build (and indeed
post build with just 98SE installed). I guess the problems may only
have been coincidental with the new install of XP home atop the clean
install of 98SE rather than related as I had assumed them to be.

Finally, does XP Home re-assign the IRQ's by overiding the BIOS
instructions and if so would hardware conflicts at the POST stage
then be resolved once XP has loaded???

Apologies if my poor understanding prevents any of this making
sense!!

Pc Pilot
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richh

External


Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 394



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: Power Up Issues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"pcpilot" wrote in message...
 > Thanks ever so much for your constructive post Richard
 > and please excuse my ignorance in the response below
 > as my knowledge is somewhat limited as you can
 > probably tell Smile

No worries, ignorance (in the literal sense of the word) is nothing to be
ashamed of!

 > I am presuming that the POST actions to which you refer are the normal
 > boot (generaly with a beep) to BIOS

Yep, pretty much. POST stands for Power-On Self Test, and refers to the
entire sequence between the power button being pressed, and the system
attempting to boot.

 > which is indeed the point at which the problems occur....though
 > randomly, the extent to which the process is completed does vary
 > from total lack of response at boot to a freeze during the display
 > of peripheral devices a little later in the cycle.

That implies underlying hardware instability, as suspected earlier. It
certainly tends to rule the OS out.

 > The BIOS settings have not been changed in the limited rebuild hence
 > my reference to the principle changes being removal of the SCSI card,
 > addition of third memory stick and installation of XP Home.

Hmmm, have you tried taking that third DIMM back out to see if stability is
restored? It may be a duff stick.

 > As you have pointed me in the direction of hardware especially in
 > the region of the CPU slot I will also remove and reinsert the
 > Powerleap adapter in case the slot to adapter connections have
 > been disturbed in the rebuild. Whilst doing so I will inspect those
 > smoothing caps for damage.

Good move, in both respects. It'd also be well worth hoovering, or otherwise
removing dust from the system, if you've yet to do so.

 > I guess the problems may only have been coincidental with the new
 > install of XP home atop the clean install of 98SE rather than related
 > as I had assumed them to be.

Yeah. In this scenario there are few safe assumptions unfortunately. The
most reliable way to get to the root cause is to rule out potential
explanations until there's only one left.

 > Finally, does XP Home re-assign the IRQ's by overiding the BIOS
 > instructions

Depends on the motherboard. In most cases XP will allocate PCI IRQ's pretty
well, although with older, non-ACPI boards like the BH6 its abilities to
shift and change resources are likely to be somewhat limited.

 > and if so would hardware conflicts at the POST stage then be resolved
 > once XP has loaded???

It's impossible to give a generalised answer to that one I'm afraid, the
only way to be certain is to look in Device Manager.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace nospam with pipex in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dabs.com" target="_blank">www.dabs.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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pcpilot

External


Since: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Power Up Issues [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Once again Richard thank you for your most informed responses.

 > Hmmm, have you tried taking that third DIMM back out to see if
stability is restored? It may be a duff stick.
 >
 > Had already tried that one, all sticks transposed, both with just 2
(limited to 512 MB) and all 3 (768 MB). No noticable improvement
attained.
 >
 > Good move, in both respects. It'd also be well worth hoovering, or
otherwise removing dust from the system, if you've yet to do so.

Have now stripped the system 'airdusted' everything and inspected
those capacitors......remarkably, they are like new, no leakage, no
doming. The Powerleap adapter has been reinserted securely. Guess
what stable booting..........your help much appreciated Smile

To be sure, all cards removed excepting Graphics card as you suggested
and soak tested with no problem as yet.

 > Depends on the motherboard. In most cases XP will allocate PCI IRQ's
pretty well, although with older, non-ACPI boards like the BH6 its
abilities to shift and change resources are likely to be somewhat
limited.
 >
 > It's impossible to give a generalised answer to that one I'm afraid,
the only way to be certain is to look in Device Manager.
 >
 > In order to resolve the problem with (possible) IRQ conflicts
surrounding the Wireless Adapter Card (Linksys WMP54GS-UK) I have
reassigned IRQ's manually in BIOS and these changes are confirmed in
device manager.
 >
 > The Linksys card has been installed on its own with the dedicated
IRQ of 12 as suggested by Linksys so with all cards removed there are
no other PCI/ISA devices to conflict but still get the Code 10 error
(Device Cannot Start) when drivers are installed. XP seemingly
recognises the device but something is preventing it from
functioning. (NB. The green light at the rear of the card is also
extinguisged).
 >
 > Are there any pointers you can offer on how I might troubleshoot
this one?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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