Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!!

In article <049dj0p92m52cujrqrnd30ng5fur4m35st.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, Gord Ipsofacto
<ipsofacto.TakeThisOut@operamail.com> wrote:

 > Okay, I understand that the 1 Mb cache is going to make for a better
 > CPU overall, but I have to weigh the consideration that I'm running XP
 > Prof w/ SP2 installed on a P4P800E Deluxe.
 >
 > Are the problems with SP2 something that will be overcome with a new
 > BIOS? Is it something I'm going to have to wait for Microsoft to
 > patch?
 >
 > Should I go with the Prescott and rebuild the boot drive to not
 > incorporate SP2? Or, should I merely buy a CPU that doesn't have the 1
 > Mb cache.
 >
 > I'm currently using a P4 2.4 that is supposed to have Hyper-Threading
 > but the BIOS refuses to recognize this fact. Buts that's a whole other
 > topic.
 >
 > Advice, anyone?
 >
 > TIA
 >
 > Gord

Prescott has a deeper pipeline. A side effect of that, is when an
unexpected branch happens, some part of the info in the pipeline
is discarded, and that represents inefficiency. Intel countered
this effect, by bumping up the cache. So, the 1MB cache doesn't
represent a straight benefit you can determine by just comparing
it to the 512KB cache of its predecessor. You really need to
see some review articles with benchmarks, and then use the benchmarks
that represent what you do most with the computer, to decide
which to buy.

Prescott runs hotter, and with inadequate cooling, it doesn't
overheat, but it invokes thermal throttling, which reduces the
heat and the performance at the same time. At least one user
discovered his new system had less performance than his old
system, due to thermal throttling. So, attention to cooling
issues is a little more of a priority with Prescott (not
impossible to solve, but you'll have a tough time trading
performance off for quiet operation).

I would separate your hardware and software issues, and do
the best for each of them separately. Microsoft will eventually
get a clue - patching is a way of life with them, and whether
you install SP2 now or a month from now, won't make that much
difference. You can always clone an SP1 image onto a separate
disk, then install SP2, and if it bombs on boot, just switch
back to the SP1 disk again. Saves the hassle of disabling
L1/L2 cache in the BIOS and waiting forever for the computer to
boot, so you can undo SP2.

HTH,
Paul<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!! 

There is no problem with SP2 as regards Prescott, the problem is that
the BIOS' currently residing on many motheboards don't have the right
[latest] microcode. It will be the motherboard BIOS' that will have to
change, not SP2. In most cases, the updated BIOS' already exist and are
available for download.

If you ultimately want Prescott, go with Prescott (there are those who
think that Northwood is a better choice, smaller cache and SP2 not
withstanding). If an SP2 compatible BIOS update is available now, fine,
install it and use SP2. Otherwise, stick with SP1 and the individual
updates for now, with the expectation that within a matter of weeks, an
updated BIOS will be available that will fully support the changes in SP2.

Gord Ipsofacto wrote:

 > Okay, I understand that the 1 Mb cache is going to make for a better
 > CPU overall, but I have to weigh the consideration that I'm running XP
 > Prof w/ SP2 installed on a P4P800E Deluxe.
 >
 > Are the problems with SP2 something that will be overcome with a new
 > BIOS? Is it something I'm going to have to wait for Microsoft to
 > patch?
 >
 > Should I go with the Prescott and rebuild the boot drive to not
 > incorporate SP2? Or, should I merely buy a CPU that doesn't have the 1
 > Mb cache.
 >
 > I'm currently using a P4 2.4 that is supposed to have Hyper-Threading
 > but the BIOS refuses to recognize this fact. Buts that's a whole other
 > topic.
 >
 > Advice, anyone?
 >
 > TIA
 >
 > Gord<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!! 

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM DeleteThis @neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:41370CB1.6010201@neo.rr.com...
 > There is no problem with SP2 as regards Prescott, the problem is that
 > the BIOS' currently residing on many motheboards don't have the right
 > [latest] microcode. It will be the motherboard BIOS' that will have to
 > change, not SP2.

Why then does running SP1's update.sys under SP2 fix the issue?

 > In most cases, the updated BIOS' already exist and are
 > available for download.
 >
 > If you ultimately want Prescott, go with Prescott (there are those who
 > think that Northwood is a better choice, smaller cache and SP2 not
 > withstanding). If an SP2 compatible BIOS update is available now, fine,
 > install it and use SP2. Otherwise, stick with SP1 and the individual
 > updates for now,

No need, SP2 works fine on Prescotts with or without the mobo BIOS fix.
Without the mobo BIOS fix just rename SP2's update.sys or replace it with
SP1's update.sys<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!! 

"Paul" <nospam.RemoveThis@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-0209040521360001@192.168.1.177...

-snip

 > Prescott runs hotter, and with inadequate cooling, it doesn't
 > overheat, but it invokes thermal throttling, which reduces the
 > heat and the performance at the same time. At least one user
 > discovered his new system had less performance than his old
 > system, due to thermal throttling.

I believe that this is a greater problem than just Prescotts. I think I've
been seeing this on Toshiba 3500 & M200 TabletPCs. Is there any good way(an
app?) to see what a CPUs throttling state and/or temperature is in real
time?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!! 

Thank you gents for the offered advice. I'm much obliged.

As a result, I'll likely buy the Prescott and figure my way from
there.

Gord



On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:10:42 GMT, "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh RemoveThis @att.net>
wrote:

 >
 >"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM RemoveThis @neo.rr.com> wrote in message
 >news:41370CB1.6010201@neo.rr.com...
  >> There is no problem with SP2 as regards Prescott, the problem is that
  >> the BIOS' currently residing on many motheboards don't have the right
  >> [latest] microcode. It will be the motherboard BIOS' that will have to
  >> change, not SP2.
 >
 >Why then does running SP1's update.sys under SP2 fix the issue?
 >
  >> In most cases, the updated BIOS' already exist and are
  >> available for download.
  >>
  >> If you ultimately want Prescott, go with Prescott (there are those who
  >> think that Northwood is a better choice, smaller cache and SP2 not
  >> withstanding). If an SP2 compatible BIOS update is available now, fine,
  >> install it and use SP2. Otherwise, stick with SP1 and the individual
  >> updates for now,
 >
 >No need, SP2 works fine on Prescotts with or without the mobo BIOS fix.
 >Without the mobo BIOS fix just rename SP2's update.sys or replace it with
 >SP1's update.sys
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!! 

Just a quick follow-up...

I went and bought a 3.0 Prescott, installed it without making any
modification to the BIOS or update.sys, and the system runs just fine.

I'm quite pleased. Even better, I only paid $250 CDN for the chip.

Life is good. : )

Gord





On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 03:56:04 GMT, Gord Ipsofacto
<ipsofacto.RemoveThis@operamail.com> wrote:

 >
 >Thank you gents for the offered advice. I'm much obliged.
 >
 >As a result, I'll likely buy the Prescott and figure my way from
 >there.
 >
 >Gord
 >
 >
 >
 >On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 20:10:42 GMT, "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh.RemoveThis@att.net>
 >wrote:
 >
  >>
  >>"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM.RemoveThis@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
  >>news:41370CB1.6010201@neo.rr.com...
   >>> There is no problem with SP2 as regards Prescott, the problem is that
   >>> the BIOS' currently residing on many motheboards don't have the right
   >>> [latest] microcode. It will be the motherboard BIOS' that will have to
   >>> change, not SP2.
  >>
  >>Why then does running SP1's update.sys under SP2 fix the issue?
  >>
   >>> In most cases, the updated BIOS' already exist and are
   >>> available for download.
   >>>
   >>> If you ultimately want Prescott, go with Prescott (there are those who
   >>> think that Northwood is a better choice, smaller cache and SP2 not
   >>> withstanding). If an SP2 compatible BIOS update is available now, fine,
   >>> install it and use SP2. Otherwise, stick with SP1 and the individual
   >>> updates for now,
  >>
  >>No need, SP2 works fine on Prescotts with or without the mobo BIOS fix.
  >>Without the mobo BIOS fix just rename SP2's update.sys or replace it with
  >>SP1's update.sys
  >>
  >><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Prescott - Northwood? Win XP - SP2 Aaargh!!