Welcome to HardwareForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"?

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2
   Hardware Problem Solving Community! (Home) -> Chips RSS
Next:  boot failure after dvd firmware upgrade hp pavili..  
Author Message
Franc Zabkar

External


Since: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 226



(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>chips, others (more info?)

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 19:42:31 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

 >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:14:07 +1000, Franc Zabkar <fzabkar.RemoveThis@optussnet.com.au>
 >wrote:
 >
  >>On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:51:21 -0400, keith <krw.RemoveThis@att.bizzzz> put finger
  >>to keyboard and composed:
 >
   >>>The SiS chipsets could do either.
  >>
  >>At that time many users discovered that a combination of AMD K6 CPU
  >>and SiS5597/5598 chipset was unstable when using a pseudo-synchronous
  >>PCI/FSB clock in the ratio of 2:5. This problem was well documented in
  >>various forums.
  >>
   >>> Via was indeed
   >>>pseudo-sync (non-integral synchronous) only.
  >>
  >>I doubt it. Show me the evidence.
 >
 >Anybody as interested as you should have the VIA data sheets.

Unfortunately such internal documents are available only to a select
few. Mere mortals don't qualify.

 > Look up the
 >MVP3 chipset (598.pdf), specifically the VT82C598 North Bridge. It
 >supported FSB:PCI clock ratios of 2, 2.5 and 3 and that's err, all folks.
 >FWIW there were many mbrds which were scripted for 2.5 jumpering but I
 >never heard of one which actually implemented it - even when there was a
 >jumper, instead of a couple of spare pads, it did not actually force a 2.5
 >ratio. AIR a look at the clock chips used showed that it was just not
 >supported - mbrd mfr cheaped out or possibly the the VIA 598 didn't
 >actually work right that way.
 >
 >If you don't have the .pdf and are umm, nice (for a change :-}) I'll e-mail
 >it to you.

I'm always nice ... to nice people. But I detest liars and pompous
blowhards.

Thanks for your offer of the .pdf file. I suspect the OP would
appreciate a copy, too. I don't really need it myself, though, as I
don't doubt your integrity, nor your knowledge. OTOH, I have proven
Keith to be wrong on so many occasions, on even basic issues, that I'm
loathe to accept anything he says without independent confirmation.

May I suggest you upload the VIA datasheet to your own webspace and
post a link to same.

 >Rgds, George Macdonald
 >
 >"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
keith2

External


Since: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 488



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:14:07 +1000, Franc Zabkar wrote:

 > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:51:21 -0400, keith <krw.RemoveThis@att.bizzzz> put finger
 > to keyboard and composed:
 >
  >>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:36:11 +1000, Franc Zabkar wrote:
 >
   >>> The scenario which was the basis of the old thread involved a single
   >>> 14MHz crystal oscillator and a single clock generator IC. This would
   >>> have made the chip's FSB/PCI clock outputs pseudo-synchronous, as
   >>> defined by Asus. However, the IC manufacturer's datasheet made no such
   >>> distinction and referred to it simply as async.
   >>>
   >>> IIRC, Keith claimed that he was in possession of two versions of the
   >>> same Asus motherboard which used both clocking schemes, but when I
   >>> challenged him to identify the respective clock chip(s) he was
   >>> strangely silent. So the matter was never conclusively resolved.
  >>
  >>Yes, I found the evidence, and there were indeed different versions of
  >>the SP97(?). I simply found it uninteresting to argue with someone who
  >>was *so* wrong.
 >
 > You avoided several opportunities to present the "evidence" which you
 > claimed was at your fingertips. Instead you chose to fabricate a
 > preposterous lie because you were not man enough to admit that you
 > were wrong.

I can't help it if you can't understand how wrong you are. The databases
have been purged, so I no longer have access to the original information.
It's only been five and a half years since I worked in x86.

  >> BTW, the board I had in my drawer indeed did have only
  >>one oscillator. ...so you were right there.
 >
 > Of course I was. The photographs on Asus's website were evidence enough.

The original SP97s were either pseudo-sync or async (now you have me
thinking), though async was more in the SiS style. ...and I wouldn't have
spent so much time on the SP97-V if it were pseudo-sync.


  >> OTOH, I had the records from
  >>*hundreds* of boards (from every manufacturer - including the SP97) that
  >>said there were both.
 >
 > BS. IIRC, there were only two versions of the SP97, one with both SIMMs
 > and DIMMs, the other with SIMMs only. Both used a single oscillator and
 > clock generator.

Read the sentence again. I was talking about the "yndreds of boards"
here, not specifically the SP97. Slow down, kid.

  >>The SiS chipsets could do either.
 >
 > At that time many users discovered that a combination of AMD K6 CPU and
 > SiS5597/5598 chipset was unstable when using a pseudo-synchronous
 > PCI/FSB clock in the ratio of 2:5. This problem was well documented in
 > various forums.

I didn't use the K6 on that board. Since the K6 was only specified for a
66MHz bus, it's not surprising that it would be unstable in psuedo-sync
(75MHz) operation. The M2 was quite happy with the 5598 at 75MHz, though.

  >> Via was indeed
  >>pseudo-sync (non-integral synchronous) only.
 >
 > I doubt it. Show me the evidence.

Read the datasheets. Via coined the term, meanwhile SiS was busy doing
async.

--
Keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
keith2

External


Since: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 488



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:18:03 -0700, Anon wrote:

 > keith <krw.RemoveThis@att.bizzzz> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.09.14.02.43.39.901503.RemoveThis@att.bizzzz>...
  >> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:20:13 -0700, Anon wrote:
  >>
   >> > I believe that pseudo-sync is synchronized thus not asynchronized.
  >>
  >> You would be correct.
  >>
   >> > However, is pseudo-sync also called 'asynchronous mode'?
  >>
  >> No. Some manufacturers did an asynchronous chipset (eg. SiS). Via's were
  >> pseudo-sync, which meant a non-integral, but synchronous multiplier
  >> between the processor bus and the PCI bus.
 >
 > there are a number of sites that seem to refer to 1 clock chipsets as
 > being able to run in 'asynchronous mode'

There are a lot of web sites out there that are wrong. Just because you
read it...

 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hardwarepage.nl/viaapollomvp4.html" target="_blank">http://www.hardwarepage.nl/viaapollomvp4.html</a> and
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/19980731/socket7-02.html" target="_blank">http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/19980731/socket7-02.html</a> "VIA's
 > MVP3 chipset allows you to use a synchronous or asynchronous mode for
 > your memory"
 >
 >
 > If async means 2 clocks,

It means litterally, without clock. Practically it means an interface
that isn't clocked - crosses a clock domain that is not synchronized. Two
oscillators implies not-synchronized (a little more complicated, but...).


 > and given the quote above - then maybe
 > 'asynchronous mode' is different from 'real' async. If that were the
 > case, then maybe 'async mode' is a pseudonym for pseudo-sync

I'd say that's a good analysis of the situation. Note that pseudo-sync
*is* really synchronous, with a non-integral relationship beteen the
domains. Syncronous interfaces (integral multipliers, or not) avoid many
pitfalls of asynchronous interfaces. Though there are many asynchronous
interfaces in a typical PC.

--
Keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
chrisv

External


Since: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 649



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:53 am
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

q_q_anonymous.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk (Anon) wrote:

 >I believe that pseudo-sync is synchronized thus not asynchronized.

Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups, you idiot?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Anon5

External


Since: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 14



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

chrisv <chrisv RemoveThis @nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<nlktk011c2puu1uso0ulo8vlb9qnj0ar5r RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
 > q_q_anonymous RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk (Anon) wrote:
 >
  > >I believe that pseudo-sync is synchronized thus not asynchronized.
 >
 > Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups, you idiot?

All those newsgroups were relevant. If I'd have wanted a bunch of
arrogant bastards replying to my post then I would have posted to a
newsgroup for arrogant bastards, such as comp.os.linux.advocacy a
newsgroup which you love so much.

It was extremely amusing reading the number of times you call people
'idiot' in the elitist newsgroups that you visit like
rec.music.classical and comp.os.linux.advocacy. Actually, it's
probably very unfair to label those newsgroups elitist. Perhaps there
are just small cells of elitists that make all the decent folk look
bad. Or maybe you're all alone in your little elitist cell!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Franc Zabkar

External


Since: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 226



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:47:01 -0400, keith <krw RemoveThis @att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

 >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:14:07 +1000, Franc Zabkar wrote:
 >
  >> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:51:21 -0400, keith <krw RemoveThis @att.bizzzz> put finger
  >> to keyboard and composed:
  >>
   >>>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:36:11 +1000, Franc Zabkar wrote:
  >>
   >>>> The scenario which was the basis of the old thread involved a single
   >>>> 14MHz crystal oscillator and a single clock generator IC. This would
   >>>> have made the chip's FSB/PCI clock outputs pseudo-synchronous, as
   >>>> defined by Asus. However, the IC manufacturer's datasheet made no such
   >>>> distinction and referred to it simply as async.
   >>>>
   >>>> IIRC, Keith claimed that he was in possession of two versions of the
   >>>> same Asus motherboard which used both clocking schemes, but when I
   >>>> challenged him to identify the respective clock chip(s) he was
   >>>> strangely silent. So the matter was never conclusively resolved.
   >>>
   >>>Yes, I found the evidence, and there were indeed different versions of
   >>>the SP97(?). I simply found it uninteresting to argue with someone who
   >>>was *so* wrong.
  >>
  >> You avoided several opportunities to present the "evidence" which you
  >> claimed was at your fingertips. Instead you chose to fabricate a
  >> preposterous lie because you were not man enough to admit that you
  >> were wrong.
 >
 >I can't help it if you can't understand how wrong you are. The databases
 >have been purged, so I no longer have access to the original information.
 >It's only been five and a half years since I worked in x86.

I could care less about your mythical databases or other pathetic
attempts at obfuscation. You had *several* opportunities to present
the evidence that you claimed was in your hands. All you had to do was
to identify the part number(s) of the clock chip(s). The fact that you
avoided doing so speaks volumes for your character, or lack thereof.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
kony

External


Since: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 7693



(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 20 Sep 2004 13:47:24 -0700, q_q_anonymous.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk
(Anon) wrote:


  >> Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups, you idiot?
 >
 >All those newsgroups were relevant. If I'd have wanted a bunch of
 >arrogant bastards replying to my post then I would have posted to a
 >newsgroup for arrogant bastards, such as comp.os.linux.advocacy a
 >newsgroup which you love so much.
 >

Yeah, but it's not really appropriate to post to ALL
"potentially" relevant newsgroups either, since there is a
lot of overlap that would result in many, many groups
getting swamped with posts. Try one or two MOST APPROPRIATE
groups.

Now onto the main issue, why do you post this?
Is there a specific problem or do you expect the entire
world to stop what they're doing and educate you instead of
bothering to use a search engine?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Anon5

External


Since: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 14



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:25 am
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote in message news:<6fiuk0tm701tba2fj0o1av7t42hg826f2u.DeleteThis@4ax.com>...
 > On 20 Sep 2004 13:47:24 -0700, q_q_anonymous.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk
 > (Anon) wrote:
 >
 >
   > >> Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups, you idiot?
  > >
  > >All those newsgroups were relevant. If I'd have wanted a bunch of
  > >arrogant bastards replying to my post then I would have posted to a
  > >newsgroup for arrogant bastards, such as comp.os.linux.advocacy a
  > >newsgroup which you love so much.
  > >
 >
 > Yeah, but it's not really appropriate to post to ALL
 > "potentially" relevant newsgroups either, since there is a
 > lot of overlap that would result in many, many groups
 > getting swamped with posts. Try one or two MOST APPROPRIATE
 > groups.
 >
 > Now onto the main issue, why do you post this?
 > Is there a specific problem or do you expect the entire
 > world to stop what they're doing and educate you instead of
 > bothering to use a search engine?

I did use a search engine - the great google, and the results that
seemed most appropriate were those of toms hardware. Which were very
unhelpful. Did you know some people are actually happy to have
information archived to help many others?

If it were just for education, it would not just be for my education,
but for the rest of the world since google archives everything. Plus,
since it archives everything and there was nothing explaining the term
'asynchronous mode', on usenet or the web, that I could find, I feel
that WE are all doing a great service to the world, moreso those gerat
people like keith frank george and dave M and dave W that respond with
answers or questions or debate on the topic (not you kony of course).
Infact, if you look at archives and study my post. You will see that I
spent a lot of time going through earlier posts which included reading
posts from people that performed the same crime as me, posting a
question on usenet. Those questions and the responses were extremely
helpful and benefit people till the end of time. Infact some of the
posters that posted a similar question in earlier years did not
research previous answers as much as I did. Their crime was and is
helping future posters. And my crime is theirs.
I even referenced those posts in my first post. Since I am not asking
the question just to serve my own purposes, but to help others that
are interested in years to come. Infact, I even summarised the
opinions of keith and frank from a long previous thread. I have made a
great effort to be extremely helpful to people who want to know what
the term means. I invested a lot of time researching previous posts,
referencing them, summarising the opinions of authors writing in other
long threads that were hard to follow since the authors assigned
different meaning to their terminology and realised/cleared it up at
the end. And this thread actually answers that 'asynchronous mode'
question completely, and shows that Toms Hardware was extremely
unclear and misleading in its implications.

It is YOU that has not done his research. Had you bothered to read my
original post, you would have seen that I had done a lot of research
and made great efforts (as mentioned above) so that my post would help
others in the future.

How could I have researched for writing my post, summarised opinions
from previous posts, without a search engine? Without making thorough
use of a search engine?
How can you be so stupid as to think I didn't bother to use a search
engine???

How does my crime compare with the crime of earlier posters that
posted questions about pseudo-sync which were very helpful to me and
others?

Why do you think I summarised the research that I had done from
previous threads, even though that research contained no questions?
That's a hard question for you to answer, since you don't read posts,
but the answer is written in this post. I'll give you a hint
hint: that huge chunk of my post is archived to help others.

I wonder why you don't always notice when soembody is helping others
or using search engines. Even when it's blatantly obvious. Perhaps
it's because these qualities are alien to you.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
chrisv

External


Since: Nov 12, 2003
Posts: 649



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

q_q_anonymous.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk (Anon) wrote:

 >chrisv <chrisv.TakeThisOut@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<nlktk011c2puu1uso0ulo8vlb9qnj0ar5r.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
  >> q_q_anonymous.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk (Anon) wrote:
  >>
   >> >I believe that pseudo-sync is synchronized thus not asynchronized.
  >>
  >> Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups, you idiot?
 >
 >All those newsgroups were relevant. If I'd have wanted a bunch of
 >arrogant bastards replying to my post then I would have posted to a
 >newsgroup for arrogant bastards, such as comp.os.linux.advocacy a
 >newsgroup which you love so much.
 >
 >It was extremely amusing reading the number of times you call people
 >'idiot' in the elitist newsgroups that you visit like
 >rec.music.classical and comp.os.linux.advocacy. Actually, it's
 >probably very unfair to label those newsgroups elitist. Perhaps there
 >are just small cells of elitists that make all the decent folk look
 >bad. Or maybe you're all alone in your little elitist cell!

Heh. I always get a kick out of you weirdos who, when offended,
immediately run-off to google to try to dig-up some "dirt" on the
other person. In this case, you discovered that I also post in the
linux advocacy group (which you claim is evidence of my being an
"elitist"). Wow, I am so ashamed of the fact that I post in the linux
advocacy group, and that I've used the word "idiot" to describe the
many trolls that frequent that group. Not.

It's difficult to not feel superior when surrounded by idiots like
you. Cool<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
kony

External


Since: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 7693



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 21 Sep 2004 01:25:17 -0700, q_q_anonymous.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk
(Anon) wrote:

<snip>

 > Perhaps
 >it's because these qualities are alien to you.

.... or perhaps you go off on a tangent and just assume it's
a noble cause, ingoring that the end does not always justify
the means.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Is Pseudo-Sync the same as "asynchronous mode"? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
WANTED: Embedded software developers - Wanted software developers with 3+ years experience in developing embedded systems using C++, vxWorks, and Object oriented eesign and development. Please email full resumes and contact info to kayd@4cs.com

Is T-Bred B faster and cooler than T-Bred A? - This page http://www.motherboardfaqs.com/article.php?17.255 says: "The Thoroughbred "B" is simply a revised version of the A core, with one major kick - speed! These chips feature the usual optimizations on an instruction level...

Help me ID this ATI graphics card - I have this old graphics card which I am trying to identify. It is labelled Sept 1999. The circuit board has a logo on the circuit side which says "graphics by ATI Rage 128" On the components side of the circuit board it says "&quot...

BIOS SETTINGS "addon rom display mode" - hi, can anyone tell me please what does it mean (1) Asus AMI "addon rom display mode" "force bios" or "keep current" ? (2) Suspend modes S1(pos) S3 (str) ? (3) "bootup number lock" on/off - when is thi...

nForce 4 audio constantly being put in energy saver mode -.. - I have a Chaintech motherboard with nForce 4 audio chipset built-in to the motherboard. As subject line states, the computer is "always" putting the audio into energy saver mode, even when I in the middle of a game of Warcraft III. Im sure i...
   Hardware Problem Solving Community! (Home) -> Chips All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]