Thermal protection??

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:55:13 -0500, kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> sayd the
following:

>On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:53:22 -0500, Crackles McFarly
><IrelandSux.DeleteThis@ireland.sux> wrote:
>
>>ASUS A8S-X motherboard.
>>
>>I've searched the manual, PDF's and ASUS's website and cannot find
>>this info.
>>
>
>Did you look in the bios menu? There is often a user
>adjustable setting there.
>
>
>>So, does it contain something similar to COP or any other overheat
>>protection for the CPU?
>>
>>The CPU is an AMD 64 3200+ Venice Socket 939 if that helps.
>
>The processor has built-in thermal protection.

My bios has no such features/selections, I've checked a dozen times
till I'm sick of looking at the bios.

So you say this:If the temp goes too high, the cpu shuts down even if
the motherboard has no such settings? It's a function of the CPU and
NOT the motherbaord?

Do I have it correct?
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

Crackles McFarly wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:55:13 -0500, kony <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> sayd the
> following:
>
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:53:22 -0500, Crackles McFarly
>> <IrelandSux RemoveThis @ireland.sux> wrote:
>>
>>> ASUS A8S-X motherboard.
>>>
>>> I've searched the manual, PDF's and ASUS's website and cannot find
>>> this info.
>>>
>> Did you look in the bios menu? There is often a user
>> adjustable setting there.
>>
>>
>>> So, does it contain something similar to COP or any other overheat
>>> protection for the CPU?
>>>
>>> The CPU is an AMD 64 3200+ Venice Socket 939 if that helps.
>> The processor has built-in thermal protection.
>
> My bios has no such features/selections, I've checked a dozen times
> till I'm sick of looking at the bios.
>
> So you say this:If the temp goes too high, the cpu shuts down even if
> the motherboard has no such settings? It's a function of the CPU and
> NOT the motherbaord?
>
> Do I have it correct?

It is not in the BIOS. It is a feature of the processor. If the
processor goes over a temperature specifically defined for that
processor, the THERMTRIP signal is asserted. It connects to the
PS_ON# logic tree, and should shut off the motherboard immediately.

On previous boards, a marketing term was applied to this (COP),
because a chip was added (adds expense to build). With the newer
processors, the processor already has the logic signal for
the protection function. It will still cost a couple pennies, but
is not really such a big feature, as to have a name any more.

Still, you can ask tech support, whether it is hooked up for certain.
I don't see an easy way to verify it, and it is not listed anywhere
on the Asus FAQ page for your board.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:36:48 -0500, Paul <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> sayd the
following:

>Crackles McFarly wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:55:13 -0500, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> sayd the
>> following:
>>
>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:53:22 -0500, Crackles McFarly
>>> <IrelandSux.TakeThisOut@ireland.sux> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ASUS A8S-X motherboard.
>>>>
>>>> I've searched the manual, PDF's and ASUS's website and cannot find
>>>> this info.
>>>>
>>> Did you look in the bios menu? There is often a user
>>> adjustable setting there.
>>>
>>>
>>>> So, does it contain something similar to COP or any other overheat
>>>> protection for the CPU?
>>>>
>>>> The CPU is an AMD 64 3200+ Venice Socket 939 if that helps.
>>> The processor has built-in thermal protection.
>>
>> My bios has no such features/selections, I've checked a dozen times
>> till I'm sick of looking at the bios.
>>
>> So you say this:If the temp goes too high, the cpu shuts down even if
>> the motherboard has no such settings? It's a function of the CPU and
>> NOT the motherbaord?
>>
>> Do I have it correct?
>
>It is not in the BIOS. It is a feature of the processor. If the
>processor goes over a temperature specifically defined for that
>processor, the THERMTRIP signal is asserted. It connects to the
>PS_ON# logic tree, and should shut off the motherboard immediately.
>
>On previous boards, a marketing term was applied to this (COP),
>because a chip was added (adds expense to build). With the newer
>processors, the processor already has the logic signal for
>the protection function. It will still cost a couple pennies, but
>is not really such a big feature, as to have a name any more.
>
>Still, you can ask tech support, whether it is hooked up for certain.
>I don't see an easy way to verify it, and it is not listed anywhere
>on the Asus FAQ page for your board.
>
> Paul

THANKS

However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
THERMTRIP feature responses?
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

"Crackles McFarly" <IrelandSux.TakeThisOut@ireland.sux> wrote in message
news:f7dql31o1ds14kmb6qgvc6gukdk0ktvvrd@bbb.org...
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:36:48 -0500, Paul <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> sayd the
> following:
>
>>Crackles McFarly wrote:
>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:55:13 -0500, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> sayd the
>>> following:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:53:22 -0500, Crackles McFarly
>>>> <IrelandSux.TakeThisOut@ireland.sux> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ASUS A8S-X motherboard.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've searched the manual, PDF's and ASUS's website and cannot find
>>>>> this info.
>>>>>
>>>> Did you look in the bios menu? There is often a user
>>>> adjustable setting there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So, does it contain something similar to COP or any other overheat
>>>>> protection for the CPU?
>>>>>
>>>>> The CPU is an AMD 64 3200+ Venice Socket 939 if that helps.
>>>> The processor has built-in thermal protection.
>>>
>>> My bios has no such features/selections, I've checked a dozen times
>>> till I'm sick of looking at the bios.
>>>
>>> So you say this:If the temp goes too high, the cpu shuts down even if
>>> the motherboard has no such settings? It's a function of the CPU and
>>> NOT the motherbaord?
>>>
>>> Do I have it correct?
>>
>>It is not in the BIOS. It is a feature of the processor. If the
>>processor goes over a temperature specifically defined for that
>>processor, the THERMTRIP signal is asserted. It connects to the
>>PS_ON# logic tree, and should shut off the motherboard immediately.
>>
>>On previous boards, a marketing term was applied to this (COP),
>>because a chip was added (adds expense to build). With the newer
>>processors, the processor already has the logic signal for
>>the protection function. It will still cost a couple pennies, but
>>is not really such a big feature, as to have a name any more.
>>
>>Still, you can ask tech support, whether it is hooked up for certain.
>>I don't see an easy way to verify it, and it is not listed anywhere
>>on the Asus FAQ page for your board.
>>
>> Paul
>
> THANKS
>
> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>
I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
thermal protection.


Ed
>
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:52:11 -0600, "Ed Medlin"
<ed DeleteThis @edmedlin.com> wrote:


>> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
>> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>>
>I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
>thermal protection.
>


The XPs relied on an external thermal circuit, had nothing
in them to provide this. Early socket A boards did not
offer the protection either, and it is conceivable someone
could put a later model Athlon XP into such an old board if
the FSB limitation didn't bother them, while after a certain
point (around the move to DDR memory, IIRC) AMD began
recommending, strongly, that all boards from that point on
have a thermal shutdown feature integral... but the XP
processors didn't play any part in that, except to the
extent they did have an integral thermal sensor which
software could read and respond to, but if that software
logic was missing or broken then the CPU itself could not
trigger anything.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:08 -0500, kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> sayd the
following:

>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:52:11 -0600, "Ed Medlin"
><ed.DeleteThis@edmedlin.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
>>> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>>>
>>I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
>>thermal protection.
>>
>
>
>The XPs relied on an external thermal circuit, had nothing
>in them to provide this. Early socket A boards did not
>offer the protection either, and it is conceivable someone
>could put a later model Athlon XP into such an old board if
>the FSB limitation didn't bother them, while after a certain
>point (around the move to DDR memory, IIRC) AMD began
>recommending, strongly, that all boards from that point on
>have a thermal shutdown feature integral... but the XP
>processors didn't play any part in that, except to the
>extent they did have an integral thermal sensor which
>software could read and respond to, but if that software
>logic was missing or broken then the CPU itself could not
>trigger anything.


Then I guess I'm screwed.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

Crackles McFarly wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:08 -0500, kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> sayd the
> following:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:52:11 -0600, "Ed Medlin"
>> <ed.DeleteThis@edmedlin.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
>>>> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>>>>
>>> I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
>>> thermal protection.
>>>
>>
>> The XPs relied on an external thermal circuit, had nothing
>> in them to provide this. Early socket A boards did not
>> offer the protection either, and it is conceivable someone
>> could put a later model Athlon XP into such an old board if
>> the FSB limitation didn't bother them, while after a certain
>> point (around the move to DDR memory, IIRC) AMD began
>> recommending, strongly, that all boards from that point on
>> have a thermal shutdown feature integral... but the XP
>> processors didn't play any part in that, except to the
>> extent they did have an integral thermal sensor which
>> software could read and respond to, but if that software
>> logic was missing or broken then the CPU itself could not
>> trigger anything.
>
>
> Then I guess I'm screwed.
>

Except your processor is "Athlon64". It has THERMTRIP built-in to the processor.
No software is needed to make it work. In fact, if you pulled the BIOS chip out
of the A8S-X motherboard, THERMTRIP would still work to protect the processor
against overheat. THERMTRIP is purely hardware.

AthlonXP (the older 32 bit processor) is the generation before your motherboard,
so I don't see where you're screwed with respect to the question about A8S-X.
A8S-X should be fine. But if you are still concerned, talk to Asus Tech Support,
because it appears we cannot provide you with enough assurances.

And if you do have a question about an older motherboard, identify it, so we
can address the question separately.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:12:40 -0500, Crackles McFarly
<IrelandSux RemoveThis @ireland.sux> wrote:


>Then I guess I'm screwed.


How so?

Your processor has the thermal shutdown feature, but even if
it didn't consider this:

It's a cheap board, a budget computing platform. All you
need is to spend a couple bucks on a decent fan and it's
very unlikely you would ever need thermal protection.
Processors don't just spontaneously burst into flames.
While an extra saftey feature is nice, so it would also be
nice if people driving in cars wore helmits, but they
don't... playing odds the risk of an accident is offset by
prior planning.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:05:56 -0500, Paul <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> sayd the
following:

>Crackles McFarly wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:44:08 -0500, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> sayd the
>> following:
>>
>>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:52:11 -0600, "Ed Medlin"
>>> <ed.TakeThisOut@edmedlin.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
>>>>> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>>>>>
>>>> I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
>>>> thermal protection.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The XPs relied on an external thermal circuit, had nothing
>>> in them to provide this. Early socket A boards did not
>>> offer the protection either, and it is conceivable someone
>>> could put a later model Athlon XP into such an old board if
>>> the FSB limitation didn't bother them, while after a certain
>>> point (around the move to DDR memory, IIRC) AMD began
>>> recommending, strongly, that all boards from that point on
>>> have a thermal shutdown feature integral... but the XP
>>> processors didn't play any part in that, except to the
>>> extent they did have an integral thermal sensor which
>>> software could read and respond to, but if that software
>>> logic was missing or broken then the CPU itself could not
>>> trigger anything.
>>
>>
>> Then I guess I'm screwed.
>>
>
>Except your processor is "Athlon64". It has THERMTRIP built-in to the processor.
>No software is needed to make it work. In fact, if you pulled the BIOS chip out
>of the A8S-X motherboard, THERMTRIP would still work to protect the processor
>against overheat. THERMTRIP is purely hardware.
>
>AthlonXP (the older 32 bit processor) is the generation before your motherboard,
>so I don't see where you're screwed with respect to the question about A8S-X.
>A8S-X should be fine. But if you are still concerned, talk to Asus Tech Support,
>because it appears we cannot provide you with enough assurances.
>
>And if you do have a question about an older motherboard, identify it, so we
>can address the question separately.
>
> Paul

Thanks so much.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:36:57 -0500, kony <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> sayd the
following:

>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:12:40 -0500, Crackles McFarly
><IrelandSux.DeleteThis@ireland.sux> wrote:
>
>
>>Then I guess I'm screwed.
>
>
>How so?
>
>Your processor has the thermal shutdown feature, but even if
>it didn't consider this:
>
>It's a cheap board, a budget computing platform. All you
>need is to spend a couple bucks on a decent fan and it's
>very unlikely you would ever need thermal protection.
>Processors don't just spontaneously burst into flames.
>While an extra saftey feature is nice, so it would also be
>nice if people driving in cars wore helmits, but they
>don't... playing odds the risk of an accident is offset by
>prior planning.


My case sucks is the likely reason. It has a rear fan but not
placement for a top or front fan, so I leave the case open 24x7 now.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:31:09 -0500, Crackles McFarly
<IrelandSux RemoveThis @ireland.sux> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:36:57 -0500, kony <spam RemoveThis @spam.com> sayd the
>following:
>
>>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:12:40 -0500, Crackles McFarly
>><IrelandSux RemoveThis @ireland.sux> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Then I guess I'm screwed.
>>
>>
>>How so?
>>
>>Your processor has the thermal shutdown feature, but even if
>>it didn't consider this:
>>
>>It's a cheap board, a budget computing platform. All you
>>need is to spend a couple bucks on a decent fan and it's
>>very unlikely you would ever need thermal protection.
>>Processors don't just spontaneously burst into flames.
>>While an extra saftey feature is nice, so it would also be
>>nice if people driving in cars wore helmits, but they
>>don't... playing odds the risk of an accident is offset by
>>prior planning.
>
>
>My case sucks is the likely reason. It has a rear fan but not
>placement for a top or front fan, so I leave the case open 24x7 now.
>


Unless you have some pretty hot gaming video cards, you
should not need a front fan, and NOBODY ever needs a top
fan. Top fans are a ill-conceived idea that just makes
things worse than if the fan were elsewhere.

Your case needs two things. A reasonable rear exhaust flow
rate, meaning at least an 80mm fan, ideally 92-120mm, and
that fan's exhaust grill should not be a mostly obstructed
stamped-out metal part of the case.

Good intake area. A fan is not required if the system is
not excessively power hungry, there just needs to be enough
intake area that the rear fans work as efficiently as
reasonably possible.

If a 92mm or larger rear case exhaust without a grill
blocking too much airflow) plus the PSU exhaust, with a good
area passive front intake, won't keep the system cool
enough, you have a unique situation where some variable is
different than most people see in their use.

It's not a hard thing to keep a modern CPU cool enough,
just make sure the heatsink is suitable instead of generic
junk, and that it has a quality fan instead of some cheap
sleeve bearing thing that requires babysitting to relube it
every 9 months.

If I had to choose, I would rather have no thermal
protection and a quality hand-picked fan, than thermal
protection with a junk generic fan. Picking a good quality,
major _FAN_ manufacturer brand dual ball bearing fan makes
a substantial difference in one of the two most common
failure points in a system - cheap sleeve bearing fans
failing. The other common failure point is vented
capacitors, but that is another topic for another day.
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

"kony" <spam DeleteThis @spam.com> wrote in message
news:339rl31fs9iiu7lgp4c194mo45ems3gd9u@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:52:11 -0600, "Ed Medlin"
> <ed DeleteThis @edmedlin.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> However would you go with it being RARE for the board not to support
>>> THERMTRIP feature responses?
>>>
>>I would say very rare. IIRC, all AMD processors since the "XP" series have
>>thermal protection.
>>
>
>
> The XPs relied on an external thermal circuit, had nothing
> in them to provide this. Early socket A boards did not
> offer the protection either, and it is conceivable someone
> could put a later model Athlon XP into such an old board if
> the FSB limitation didn't bother them, while after a certain
> point (around the move to DDR memory, IIRC) AMD began
> recommending, strongly, that all boards from that point on
> have a thermal shutdown feature integral... but the XP
> processors didn't play any part in that, except to the
> extent they did have an integral thermal sensor which
> software could read and respond to, but if that software
> logic was missing or broken then the CPU itself could not
> trigger anything.

Didn't know that. I thought that the T-Bird line was the last of the AMDs
without thermal protection on the processor........ Live and learn I
guess.........


Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection?? 

"kony" <spam.DeleteThis@spam.com> wrote...
>>
>>My case sucks is the likely reason. It has a rear fan but not
>>placement for a top or front fan, so I leave the case open 24x7 now.
>
> Unless you have some pretty hot gaming video cards, you
> should not need a front fan, and NOBODY ever needs a top
> fan. Top fans are a ill-conceived idea that just makes
> things worse than if the fan were elsewhere.

You are not necessarily correct in the case of the front fan. Mine, for
example, blow directly through the HD cage, keeping the HDs cool. That is a
"good thing"!

My new Lian-Li PC60-2 has a top fan in addition to the rear fan for exhaust. I
can't imagine how the top fan can do any harm...
 >> Stay informed about: Thermal protection??