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JPD

External


Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:34 am
Post subject: Unusual RAID Question
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>hardware>storage (more info?)
I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?

For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
(XP Pro)?

If I must configure each entire disk as RAID to begin with, then can I
later shrink the RAIDed space into smaller partitions (using something
like Partition Magic) and make nonRAIDED partitions of the remaining
space?

I'm hoping to enjoy the benefits of using RAID 0 for my OS, but
without dedicating the entirety of both drives just to the OS. I've
also got a third drive -- 160GB PATA Barracuda -- that could be used
for data or as an external backup.

Plan B would be to forget about RAID and put the OS and apps on one
drive and data on the other, I guess... but my motherboard (latest MSI
875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0 and I'd like to use whatever benefit
there might be in it.

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Toshi1873

External


Since: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 130



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In article
<636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
homebuilt.RemoveThis@guitarist.com says...
 > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
 > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
 > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
 > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
 >

Almost all hardware and "hardware (software)" RAID cards
are an all-or-nothing approach. The raid card takes 2+
drives and presents them to the operating system as a
single drive. (The O/S really doesn't even know that
the disks are RAID'd.)

 > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
 > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
 > (XP Pro)?

Sure, if you were to use Linux along with Software RAID.
But you can't in WinXP. In Linux, when using Software
RAID, you can do all sorts of neat stuff like only
mirroring parts of a disk.

 > If I must configure each entire disk as RAID to begin with, then can I
 > later shrink the RAIDed space into smaller partitions (using something
 > like Partition Magic) and make nonRAIDED partitions of the remaining
 > space?

No, you won't even be able to see the "unused" portion
of the disc.

 >
 > I'm hoping to enjoy the benefits of using RAID 0 for my OS, but
 > without dedicating the entirety of both drives just to the OS. I've
 > also got a third drive -- 160GB PATA Barracuda -- that could be used
 > for data or as an external backup.
 >
 > Plan B would be to forget about RAID and put the OS and apps on one
 > drive and data on the other, I guess... but my motherboard (latest MSI
 > 875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0 and I'd like to use whatever benefit
 > there might be in it.
 >

RAID0 isn't worth much performance-wise. Better to use
the drives as two separate spindles and put your
temp/swap on the 2nd spindle.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Ron Reaugh

External


Since: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 303



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"JPD" <homebuilt DeleteThis @guitarist.com> wrote in message
news:636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f@posting.google.com...
 > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
 > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
 > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
 > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
 >
 > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
 > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
 > (XP Pro)?

Depends on what does the RAID.

 > If I must configure each entire disk as RAID to begin with, then can I
 > later shrink the RAIDed space into smaller partitions (using something
 > like Partition Magic) and make nonRAIDED partitions of the remaining
 > space?

You haven't specified any logical reason NOT to have all of both Raptors in
RAID 0.
You can then use standard Fdisk or PartionMagic to have primary and extended
patitions on the RAID 0 array. The RAID 0 array looks like a single bare
drive to the OS which one can deal with in the same way as an individual
single Raptor.

XP's intrinsic software RAID will probably allow you to use only part of
each drive for a RAID 0 array but that makes little sense often especially
if the OS is on the same drives and on a RAID 0 array.

 > I'm hoping to enjoy the benefits of using RAID 0 for my OS, but
 > without dedicating the entirety of both drives just to the OS.

Why NOT dedicate it all to RAID 0 and then divy the RAID 0 into c:, d: etc??

 > I've
 > also got a third drive -- 160GB PATA Barracuda -- that could be used
 > for data or as an external backup.
 >
 > Plan B would be to forget about RAID and put the OS and apps on one
 > drive and data on the other, I guess... but my motherboard (latest MSI
 > 875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0 and I'd like to use whatever benefit
 > there might be in it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Unusual RAID Question 
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Ron Reaugh

External


Since: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 303



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Toshi1873" <toshi1873 DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b4744272fe56ab898991e@news-50.giganews.com...
 > In article
 > <636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
 > homebuilt DeleteThis @guitarist.com says...
  > > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
  > > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
  > > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
  > > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
  > >
 >
 > Almost all hardware and "hardware (software)" RAID cards
 > are an all-or-nothing approach. The raid card takes 2+
 > drives and presents them to the operating system as a
 > single drive. (The O/S really doesn't even know that
 > the disks are RAID'd.)
 >
  > > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
  > > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
  > > (XP Pro)?
 >
 > Sure, if you were to use Linux along with Software RAID.
 > But you can't in WinXP.

I beleive you are mistaken.

 > In Linux, when using Software
 > RAID, you can do all sorts of neat stuff like only
 > mirroring parts of a disk.
 >
  > > If I must configure each entire disk as RAID to begin with, then can I
  > > later shrink the RAIDed space into smaller partitions (using something
  > > like Partition Magic) and make nonRAIDED partitions of the remaining
  > > space?
 >
 > No, you won't even be able to see the "unused" portion
 > of the disc.
 >
  > >
  > > I'm hoping to enjoy the benefits of using RAID 0 for my OS, but
  > > without dedicating the entirety of both drives just to the OS. I've
  > > also got a third drive -- 160GB PATA Barracuda -- that could be used
  > > for data or as an external backup.
  > >
  > > Plan B would be to forget about RAID and put the OS and apps on one
  > > drive and data on the other, I guess... but my motherboard (latest MSI
  > > 875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0 and I'd like to use whatever benefit
  > > there might be in it.
  > >
 >
 > RAID0 isn't worth much performance-wise.


That's flat false.

 > Better to use
 > the drives as two separate spindles and put your
 > temp/swap on the 2nd spindle.

Just no. That's almost never better performance wise than RAID 0.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Marc de Vries

External


Since: Dec 09, 2003
Posts: 50



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 19:21:56 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
<ron-reaugh.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

 >
 >"Toshi1873" <toshi1873.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
 >news:MPG.1b4744272fe56ab898991e@news-50.giganews.com...
  >> In article
  >> <636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
  >> homebuilt.RemoveThis@guitarist.com says...
   >> > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
   >> > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
   >> > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
   >> > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
   >> >
  >>
  >> Almost all hardware and "hardware (software)" RAID cards
  >> are an all-or-nothing approach. The raid card takes 2+
  >> drives and presents them to the operating system as a
  >> single drive. (The O/S really doesn't even know that
  >> the disks are RAID'd.)
  >>
   >> > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
   >> > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
   >> > (XP Pro)?
  >>
  >> Sure, if you were to use Linux along with Software RAID.
  >> But you can't in WinXP.
 >
 >I beleive you are mistaken.

He probably means that windows can only use software Raid1 on the
bootdisk and not raid0.

Linux people claim that linux can use software raid0 or raid5 on the
bootdisk.

Marc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ron Reaugh

External


Since: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 303



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Marc de Vries" <marcdevries RemoveThis @geen.spam.zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:7d40e0t14ckkfcfvu6m2qbplbf33rh26q4@4ax.com...
 > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 19:21:56 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
 > <ron-reaugh RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote:
 >
  > >
  > >"Toshi1873" <toshi1873 RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
  > >news:MPG.1b4744272fe56ab898991e@news-50.giganews.com...
   > >> In article
   > >> <636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
   > >> homebuilt RemoveThis @guitarist.com says...
   > >> > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS
that
   > >> > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
   > >> > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
   > >> > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
   > >> >
   > >>
   > >> Almost all hardware and "hardware (software)" RAID cards
   > >> are an all-or-nothing approach. The raid card takes 2+
   > >> drives and presents them to the operating system as a
   > >> single drive. (The O/S really doesn't even know that
   > >> the disks are RAID'd.)
   > >>
   > >> > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
   > >> > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
   > >> > (XP Pro)?
   > >>
   > >> Sure, if you were to use Linux along with Software RAID.
   > >> But you can't in WinXP.
  > >
  > >I beleive you are mistaken.
 >
 > He probably means that windows can only use software Raid1 on the
 > bootdisk and not raid0.
 >
 > Linux people claim that linux can use software raid0 or raid5 on the
 > bootdisk.

So does Linux precognit it's booting and overlay the MBR boot code with code
to parse stripes during the initial partition boot to Linux<g>?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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JPD

External


Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 9



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Unusual RAID Question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote:
 > "JPD" <homebuilt RemoveThis @guitarist.com> wrote in message
 > news:636bc0d2.0406260434.6fa3700f@posting.google.com...
  > > I'm building a new system for myself. I have two 36GB Raptor HDDS that
  > > I'm considering using in a RAID 0 config. My question is: Must I use
  > > ALL of each drive in the RAID config, or can I use just part of each
  > > drive in RAID and use the rest of the space unRAIDed?
  > >
  > > For instance, can I partition the first 5GB of each drive and combine
  > > the two 5GB partitions into a single RAID 0 partition (CSmile for the OS
  > > (XP Pro)?
 >
 > Depends on what does the RAID.

The motherboard (latest MSI 875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=554" target="_blank">http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=554</a>

  > > If I must configure each entire disk as RAID to begin with, then can I
  > > later shrink the RAIDed space into smaller partitions (using something
  > > like Partition Magic) and make nonRAIDED partitions of the remaining
  > > space?
 >
 > You haven't specified any logical reason NOT to have all of both Raptors in
 > RAID 0.

To enjoy the benefits of RAID 0 for the OS while avoiding the
vulnerability of storing data on RAID 0 disks. If a disk fails,
restoring the OS isn't a big problem.

After all, it's a typical scenario to put the OS on a RAID 0 array and
to put data on a third drive. There's going to be plenty of room on
the Raptors after installing the OS, so why not leave the data
"unRAIDed" on the Raptors, if possible? (Just asking.)


 > You can then use standard Fdisk or PartionMagic to have primary and extended
 > patitions on the RAID 0 array. The RAID 0 array looks like a single bare
 > drive to the OS which one can deal with in the same way as an individual
 > single Raptor.
 >
 > XP's intrinsic software RAID will probably allow you to use only part of
 > each drive for a RAID 0 array but that makes little sense often especially
 > if the OS is on the same drives and on a RAID 0 array.
 >
  > > I'm hoping to enjoy the benefits of using RAID 0 for my OS, but
  > > without dedicating the entirety of both drives just to the OS.
 >
 > Why NOT dedicate it all to RAID 0 and then divy the RAID 0 into c:, d: etc??
 >
  > > I've
  > > also got a third drive -- 160GB PATA Barracuda -- that could be used
  > > for data or as an external backup.
  > >
  > > Plan B would be to forget about RAID and put the OS and apps on one
  > > drive and data on the other, I guess... but my motherboard (latest MSI
  > > 875P FISR) has onboard RAID 0 and I'd like to use whatever benefit
  > > there might be in it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Unusual RAID Question 
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