X5DA-series/E7505 questions

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:05:41 -0400, "Rita A. Berkowitz" <ritaberk.TakeThisOut@aol.com>
wrote:

 >
 >
 >"Vincent Vega" <x.TakeThisOut@y.com> wrote in message
 >news:STYPa.9768$2r1.74119371@news-text.cableinet.net...
 >
  >> I'm thinking of upgrading my trusty P4DCE+ to one of the new 7505-based
  >> motherboards, either the X5DAE or the X5DA8 (not sure which yet, though,
  >> depends on finances and whether I feel like splashing out for some Cheetah
  >> x15s). Couple of questions:
 >
  >> 1. Is the Antec 550W TruePower EPS12V power supply
  >> (http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_powerSupply.php?ProdID=20551)
  >> supported by the boards? Is it any good?
 >
 >Yes, the 550W is a great power supply and will work great with these boards.
 >You just have to make sure that it will fit the case you are planning on
 >using. If you are using an SC742 case by Supermicro you will need to do
 >some creative mounting feats to secure it properly.

Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
handle...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

 > Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
 > handle...

Don't even need the drill bit as the self-tappers do the job.

Rita<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

"Rita A. Berkowitz" <ritaberk.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vh11hld54uvq24@corp.supernews.com...
 >
 >
 > "Vincent Vega" <x.RemoveThis@y.com> wrote in message
 > news:STYPa.9768$2r1.74119371@news-text.cableinet.net...
 >
  > > I'm thinking of upgrading my trusty P4DCE+ to one of the new 7505-based
  > > motherboards, either the X5DAE or the X5DA8 (not sure which yet, though,
  > > depends on finances and whether I feel like splashing out for some
Cheetah
  > > x15s). Couple of questions:
  > >
 >
 > If you're running a pair of 2.4s on the DCE with a decent amount of
memory,
 > I wouldn't really worry about the extra performance you will gain with the
 > X5DA*. You will see an improvement in CPU intensive programs, but is the
 > extra bucks worth it to you? If you are doing a lot of I/O based
programs,
 > you will do a better with the Cheetahs and possible a good SCSI RAID setup
 > with the X15s. Just my opinion. I and many other vendors would gladly
take
 > your money.
 >
 >
  > > 1. Is the Antec 550W TruePower EPS12V power supply
  > > (http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_powerSupply.php?ProdID=20551)
  > > supported by the boards? Is it any good?
 >
 >
 >
 > Yes, the 550W is a great power supply and will work great with these
boards.
 > You just have to make sure that it will fit the case you are planning on
 > using. If you are using an SC742 case by Supermicro you will need to do
 > some creative mounting feats to secure it properly.
 >
 >
  > > 2. I recall reading some benchmarks somewhere where someone (possibly
 > Amazon
  > > International, can't remember off-hand) was running one of the
7505-based
  > > boards with some DDR3200 memory. Looking at the specs of the boards on
 > SM's
  > > website, it says it supports PC1600/PC2100 DDR. If this is true, what's
 > the
  > > point of running DDR3200? Do you get any increased performance? IIRC,
  > > DDR3200 is meant for 800Mhz FSBs - why run it on a 533Mhz FSB then?
  > >
 >
 > Run what Supermicro recommends on their site. You will not perceive any
 > performance difference between the lot.
 >
 >
 >
 > Rita
 >
 >
 >
 >
The PC2100 DDR memory runs at 266MHz (133MHz at "double rate"). The E7505
chipset has a two channel memory controller that allows the CPU to access
memory alternately from one channel and then from the other, and so on ....
The clocks for the two channels are offset a half cycle, so the CPU sees a
new memory read/write at a 533MHz effective rate. This is why you must
install the memory modules in matched pairs. The board will not run with
one (or any odd number of) memory module(s) since, if it was permitted to
try, it would miss a memory read every other clock cycle. There is no point
to installing anything more than PC2100 memory since it runs as fast as the
CPU/memory controller will go. Nothing is slowing down to wait for the
PC2100 memory. If you were to install PC1600 memory (200 MHz) it would slow
down the memory channels to accomodate the slower memory. I am not sure,
but think this happens automatically... I also think the CPU does not slow
down, but runs the memory channels at 4/3 of normal FSB speed. Someone who
knows could (please) refute/confirm this for us.

John<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

Vincent,
Not a bad idea. Unless you're doing database heavy work, I'd highly
recommend the board upgrade over the drive upgrade. Those 15k drive
don't really do much for you unless you're doing a very high number of
seeks, as you'd do in a database environment.

As for your other questions.
1. The Antec is fantastic coupled with this board. You'll rarely see
higher output from anything, and it's quiet too.
2. I have never seen much in the way of registered 3200 memory from
anyone respectable. Even aside from that, unless you're overclocking,
the boards just aren't built for anything faster than PC2100 at this
point. MSI or one of the second tier vendor probably offers some wacky
overclockable config that might not even require Registered memory. I
wouldn't recommend it though...

Ed

Vincent Vega wrote:

 > I'm thinking of upgrading my trusty P4DCE+ to one of the new 7505-based
 > motherboards, either the X5DAE or the X5DA8 (not sure which yet, though,
 > depends on finances and whether I feel like splashing out for some Cheetah
 > x15s). Couple of questions:
 >
 > 1. Is the Antec 550W TruePower EPS12V power supply
 > (http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_powerSupply.php?ProdID=20551)
 > supported by the boards? Is it any good?
 > 2. I recall reading some benchmarks somewhere where someone (possibly Amazon
 > International, can't remember off-hand) was running one of the 7505-based
 > boards with some DDR3200 memory. Looking at the specs of the boards on SM's
 > website, it says it supports PC1600/PC2100 DDR. If this is true, what's the
 > point of running DDR3200? Do you get any increased performance? IIRC,
 > DDR3200 is meant for 800Mhz FSBs - why run it on a 533Mhz FSB then?
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:

  >>Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
  >>handle...
 >
 >
 > Don't even need the drill bit as the self-tappers do the job.
 >
 > Rita
 >
 >
Nice, quick way of voiding your warranty... If you're using a
Supermicro case, use their power supply. They're really good, though a
little noisy. If you want to use an Antec Power supply, go with an
Antec case or something different. The Supermicro cases are great, but
no so great they can't be replaced, especially for the cost. I love the
742 chassis, but there is nothing wrong with a good, old fashioned Antec
1080 Full tower. You only get 10 drive bays instead of 11, but you can
probably live with that....

Ed<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Citizen Ed" <"Citizen Ed"> wrote in message
news:3f12acfa$0$16906$afc38c87@...

 > Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:
 >
   > >>Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
   > >>handle...
  > >
  > >
  > > Don't even need the drill bit as the self-tappers do the job.
  > >
  > > Rita
  > >
  > >
 > Nice, quick way of voiding your warranty... If you're using a
 > Supermicro case, use their power supply. They're really good, though a
 > little noisy.



That is true about the warranty, but it's a question of getting a relatively
silent power supply to fit in a great case or having the customer whine
about fan noise. I'll self warrant the supplies as I know where the screws
are landing. I agree with using the SM PS in their cases if the unit is
being deployed in a server room, but as well talked about earlier; the SC742
case is probably the best case for hot-swap SCSI applications.



 > If you want to use an Antec Power supply, go with an
 > Antec case or something different. The Supermicro cases are great, but
 > no so great they can't be replaced, especially for the cost. I love the
 > 742 chassis, but there is nothing wrong with a good, old fashioned Antec
 > 1080 Full tower. You only get 10 drive bays instead of 11, but you can
 > probably live with that....



Yes, the 1080 is a great general purpose case that is very versatile.
Again, it is all in what your customer needs/wants that dictates what case
you will be using. You just can't beat the stylish low profile of the
SC742.



BTW> I've mounted and sold about 18 SC742/Trupower 550 setups since we've
discussed this matter last and haven't had one complaint. Nobody but you
and me know that the TP 550 wasn't meant for that case.



Rita<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

"Citizen Ed" <"Citizen Ed"> wrote in message
news:3f12ac39$0$16906$afc38c87@...

 > Vincent,
 > Not a bad idea. Unless you're doing database heavy work, I'd highly
 > recommend the board upgrade over the drive upgrade. Those 15k drive
 > don't really do much for you unless you're doing a very high number of
 > seeks, as you'd do in a database environment.
 >
I'm not sure of what the original poster's budget is, but I believe he
alluded to it being a bit tight? Yes, the board upgrade will give him a
little more performance, but, at what cost? He'll be buying a new MB,
memory, and processors since he'll want to take advantage of the 533 FSB.
So, basically he will be taking a loss on a perfectly good system for a
marginal increase in performance that the new one will give him.



Probably the biggest bottleneck on most systems is the lack of a fast I/O
due to older slower drives. I believe he will be happy with a boost in I/O
performance with a good drive or even a RAID for more performance. True,
this is the best way to go for heavy database work, but the gains he will
see in the general use of the system will be most satisfying.



Rita<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:20:33 -0400, "Rita A. Berkowitz" <ritaberk.RemoveThis@aol.com>
wrote:

 >
 >
 >"Citizen Ed" <"Citizen Ed"> wrote in message
 >news:3f12acfa$0$16906$afc38c87@...
 >
  >> Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:
  >>
   >> >>Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
   >> >>handle...
   >> >
   >> >
   >> > Don't even need the drill bit as the self-tappers do the job.
   >> >
   >> > Rita
   >> >
   >> >
  >> Nice, quick way of voiding your warranty... If you're using a
  >> Supermicro case, use their power supply. They're really good, though a
  >> little noisy.
 >
 >
 >
 >That is true about the warranty, but it's a question of getting a relatively
 >silent power supply to fit in a great case or having the customer whine
 >about fan noise. I'll self warrant the supplies as I know where the screws
 >are landing. I agree with using the SM PS in their cases if the unit is
 >being deployed in a server room, but as well talked about earlier; the SC742
 >case is probably the best case for hot-swap SCSI applications.
 >
 >
 >
  >> If you want to use an Antec Power supply, go with an
  >> Antec case or something different. The Supermicro cases are great, but
  >> no so great they can't be replaced, especially for the cost. I love the
  >> 742 chassis, but there is nothing wrong with a good, old fashioned Antec
  >> 1080 Full tower. You only get 10 drive bays instead of 11, but you can
  >> probably live with that....
 >
 >
 >
 >Yes, the 1080 is a great general purpose case that is very versatile.
 >Again, it is all in what your customer needs/wants that dictates what case
 >you will be using. You just can't beat the stylish low profile of the
 >SC742.
 >
 >
 >
 >BTW> I've mounted and sold about 18 SC742/Trupower 550 setups since we've
 >discussed this matter last and haven't had one complaint. Nobody but you
 >and me know that the TP 550 wasn't meant for that case.

Welll....there are a few more of us out here who switched before we went deaf


I wouldn't wish a box-stock SC742 with the SuperMicro supply on my worst enemy
in an office or (gulp!) home environment. With a pair of 2.8ghz Prestonias, a
couple of gigs of memory, a quartet of u320 drives, a Parhelia, and a pair of
scsi host adapters, that power supply redefined "LOUD".

A nice case nearly ruined by a power supply...

/daytripper<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:
 > "Citizen Ed" <"Citizen Ed"> wrote in message
 > news:3f12acfa$0$16906$afc38c87@...
 >
 >
  >>Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>>Nothing an 1/8" drill bit and four self-tapping sheet metal screws can't
   >>>>handle...
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>Don't even need the drill bit as the self-tappers do the job.
   >>>
   >>>Rita
   >>>
   >>>
  >>
  >>Nice, quick way of voiding your warranty... If you're using a
  >>Supermicro case, use their power supply. They're really good, though a
  >>little noisy.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > That is true about the warranty, but it's a question of getting a relatively
 > silent power supply to fit in a great case or having the customer whine
 > about fan noise. I'll self warrant the supplies as I know where the screws
 > are landing. I agree with using the SM PS in their cases if the unit is
 > being deployed in a server room, but as well talked about earlier; the SC742
 > case is probably the best case for hot-swap SCSI applications.
 >
True. I've used the Antecs in the 742/942 as well. However, when I
mention the voided warranty situation, I tend to get objections, so I'm
torn between not mentioning it and self warranting, and being up front
about it....
 >
  >>If you want to use an Antec Power supply, go with an
  >>Antec case or something different. The Supermicro cases are great, but
  >>no so great they can't be replaced, especially for the cost. I love the
  >>742 chassis, but there is nothing wrong with a good, old fashioned Antec
  >>1080 Full tower. You only get 10 drive bays instead of 11, but you can
  >>probably live with that....
 >
 >
 > Yes, the 1080 is a great general purpose case that is very versatile.
 > Again, it is all in what your customer needs/wants that dictates what case
 > you will be using. You just can't beat the stylish low profile of the
 > SC742.
 >
True. It's hard to beat 7 HS bays and 4 5.25s in that profile. I'm
becoming a big fan of the 942 as well. The 10 drive bays and split
backplane are very popular....
 >
 >
 > BTW> I've mounted and sold about 18 SC742/Trupower 550 setups since we've
 > discussed this matter last and haven't had one complaint. Nobody but you
 > and me know that the TP 550 wasn't meant for that case.
 >
Good to hear.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X5DA-series/E7505 questions 

Rita A. Berkowitz wrote:

 > "Citizen Ed" <"Citizen Ed"> wrote in message
 > news:3f12ac39$0$16906$afc38c87@...
 >
 >
  >>Vincent,
  >>Not a bad idea. Unless you're doing database heavy work, I'd highly
  >>recommend the board upgrade over the drive upgrade. Those 15k drive
  >>don't really do much for you unless you're doing a very high number of
  >>seeks, as you'd do in a database environment.
  >>
 >
 > I'm not sure of what the original poster's budget is, but I believe he
 > alluded to it being a bit tight? Yes, the board upgrade will give him a
 > little more performance, but, at what cost? He'll be buying a new MB,
 > memory, and processors since he'll want to take advantage of the 533 FSB.
 > So, basically he will be taking a loss on a perfectly good system for a
 > marginal increase in performance that the new one will give him.
 >
True, the difference in performance MAY be minimal. However, he didn't
mention what CPUs he's running. If he's running Xeon 1.7s for example,
he's only got 256k of cache, only running at 400 FSB, and has no
Hyperthreading. He's also limited to 2 GB of RAM. Depending on what he
does, he may see much more benefit (though I admit it will cost more)
from upgrading MB/CPU/RAM.

 >
 > Probably the biggest bottleneck on most systems is the lack of a fast I/O
 > due to older slower drives. I believe he will be happy with a boost in I/O
 > performance with a good drive or even a RAID for more performance. True,
 > this is the best way to go for heavy database work, but the gains he will
 > see in the general use of the system will be most satisfying.
 >
It is true the the worst bottleneck in a system is at the disk.
However, I have yet to be impressed by 15k drives in most situations.
In a situation where you have many, many requests for very small files,
the 15k drives are irreplaceable. However, in just about every other
situation, I've seen where 10k drives perform better than 15k. 15k
drives are a very nice, single application drive. For the cost, you can
get more storage, and possibly even a RAID array, that will perform much
better than 15k hardware.

Ed<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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