Supermicro on the cheap

Citizen Ed wrote:
 > What application are you running. I can make a better recommendation
 > with that information.

The application, Mnogosearch is a web based search engine software for
Linux. My configuration uses Mysql 4.0, a cache Word index which is
divided into 8192 files and a compressed storage document database
(several hundred thousand files, 1gb in size). I compile it with gcc on
my Linux 2.4.20 kernel.

My performance bottlenecks are with mysql and cache database index
updates eat all my CPU resources. I also lose a little bit of time in
disk search as it searches the cache database files. Therefore I am
thinking 60gb SCSI likely would be better than the current ATA-100 IDE
controller. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible therefore
single drive and no raid.

No AGP needed, and a simple old 8mb video would suffice.

 > Do you need AGP? SCSI? You can't run a dual Xeon Supermicro board
 > without ECC Registered memory. They require it for a reason. If you're
 > running multi-CPU systems with non-ECC memory there is significant
 > potential for conflict and error.

This is good to know.

Thx Ed.

 > There isn't really a heat problem with low end cases, but if you're
 > looking at a $50 case, I hope you're looking at a $100 power supply to
 > stick in it. I rarely recommend anything but Antec for dual CPU
 > workstations, and never anything less than their True 430 watt. The CAN
 > generate some heat, but if you just fill all the available fan spots in
 > your case, it should stay sufficiently cool.
 >
 > Let me know on the application thing and on the AGP thing, and I can
 > recommend a board for you.
 >
 > Ed
 >
 > @ac wrote:
 >
  >> I have a multi-threaded application that I am running on a P4 2.8ghz
  >> HT where I am just about out of CPU resources. Anyone have any
  >> particular recommendations for a dual XEON Supermicro motherboard,
  >> including vendors that are not price gouging for these boards?
  >>
  >> The config I am looking for is 2.6 ghz Dual Xeon, 2GB non-ECC (cheaper
  >> than ECC). If I can I would rather not spend hundreds of dollars on a
  >> Supermicro case if possible and just buy a $50 INWIN special and equip
  >> it with a few fans. Anyone else able to get away with a low end case
  >> without having heat dissipation problems with these dual Xeon boards?
  >>
  >>
  >>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Supermicro on the cheap 

Thanks for the information. Based on that, I would probably go with the
Supermicro X5DE8.
(http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=16440) That board
includes a video controller, dual Gigabit Ethernet, and a U320 SCSI
controller. You can use any Xeon processor with a 533 FSB, and up to 4
GB of memory.
As an alternative, since you have a stated preference for something
inexpensive, you might want to take a look at this:
Use the X5DEi-GG,
(http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17332) which is the
same board, just minus the SCSI controller. Then, add a Promise Serial
ATA RAID controller
(http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=18549) and a couple
Western Digital 36GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA drives
(http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17846) in a striped
RAID array. You can get better performance out of a RAID array than out
of a single SCSI drive, and the overall cost will be lower.
Let me know what you think.

Ed

@ac wrote:
 >
 > Citizen Ed wrote:
 >
  >> What application are you running. I can make a better recommendation
  >> with that information.
 >
 >
 > The application, Mnogosearch is a web based search engine software for
 > Linux. My configuration uses Mysql 4.0, a cache Word index which is
 > divided into 8192 files and a compressed storage document database
 > (several hundred thousand files, 1gb in size). I compile it with gcc on
 > my Linux 2.4.20 kernel.
 >
 > My performance bottlenecks are with mysql and cache database index
 > updates eat all my CPU resources. I also lose a little bit of time in
 > disk search as it searches the cache database files. Therefore I am
 > thinking 60gb SCSI likely would be better than the current ATA-100 IDE
 > controller. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible therefore
 > single drive and no raid.
 >
 > No AGP needed, and a simple old 8mb video would suffice.
 >
  >> Do you need AGP? SCSI? You can't run a dual Xeon Supermicro board
  >> without ECC Registered memory. They require it for a reason. If
  >> you're running multi-CPU systems with non-ECC memory there is
  >> significant potential for conflict and error.
 >
 >
 > This is good to know.
 >
 > Thx Ed.
 >
  >> There isn't really a heat problem with low end cases, but if you're
  >> looking at a $50 case, I hope you're looking at a $100 power supply to
  >> stick in it. I rarely recommend anything but Antec for dual CPU
  >> workstations, and never anything less than their True 430 watt. The
  >> CAN generate some heat, but if you just fill all the available fan
  >> spots in your case, it should stay sufficiently cool.
  >>
  >> Let me know on the application thing and on the AGP thing, and I can
  >> recommend a board for you.
  >>
  >> Ed
  >>
  >> @ac wrote:
  >>
   >>> I have a multi-threaded application that I am running on a P4 2.8ghz
   >>> HT where I am just about out of CPU resources. Anyone have any
   >>> particular recommendations for a dual XEON Supermicro motherboard,
   >>> including vendors that are not price gouging for these boards?
   >>>
   >>> The config I am looking for is 2.6 ghz Dual Xeon, 2GB non-ECC
   >>> (cheaper than ECC). If I can I would rather not spend hundreds of
   >>> dollars on a Supermicro case if possible and just buy a $50 INWIN
   >>> special and equip it with a few fans. Anyone else able to get away
   >>> with a low end case without having heat dissipation problems with
   >>> these dual Xeon boards?
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
  >>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Supermicro on the cheap 

Thanks for the info. It looks like Supermicro is going to be out of my
price range even though it seems to be the way to go for a server mb. I
may even take a look at AMD multi processors at this point to open up a
whole new can of worms.

I found Asus to have a new dual XEON PC-DL for $212 but advertises it
for the power user. A dual XEON is a dual XEON so not sure if that makes
much of difference that I am using it as an application server.

If anyone has any recommendations....?

Citizen Ed wrote:
 > Thanks for the information. Based on that, I would probably go with the
 > Supermicro X5DE8.
 > (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=16440) That board
 > includes a video controller, dual Gigabit Ethernet, and a U320 SCSI
 > controller. You can use any Xeon processor with a 533 FSB, and up to 4
 > GB of memory.
 > As an alternative, since you have a stated preference for something
 > inexpensive, you might want to take a look at this:
 > Use the X5DEi-GG,
 > (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17332) which is the
 > same board, just minus the SCSI controller. Then, add a Promise Serial
 > ATA RAID controller
 > (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=18549) and a couple
 > Western Digital 36GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA drives
 > (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17846) in a striped
 > RAID array. You can get better performance out of a RAID array than out
 > of a single SCSI drive, and the overall cost will be lower.
 > Let me know what you think.
 >
 > Ed
 >
 > @ac wrote:
 >
  >>
  >> Citizen Ed wrote:
  >>
   >>> What application are you running. I can make a better recommendation
   >>> with that information.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> The application, Mnogosearch is a web based search engine software for
  >> Linux. My configuration uses Mysql 4.0, a cache Word index which is
  >> divided into 8192 files and a compressed storage document database
  >> (several hundred thousand files, 1gb in size). I compile it with gcc
  >> on my Linux 2.4.20 kernel.
  >>
  >> My performance bottlenecks are with mysql and cache database index
  >> updates eat all my CPU resources. I also lose a little bit of time in
  >> disk search as it searches the cache database files. Therefore I am
  >> thinking 60gb SCSI likely would be better than the current ATA-100 IDE
  >> controller. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible therefore
  >> single drive and no raid.
  >>
  >> No AGP needed, and a simple old 8mb video would suffice.
  >>
   >>> Do you need AGP? SCSI? You can't run a dual Xeon Supermicro board
   >>> without ECC Registered memory. They require it for a reason. If
   >>> you're running multi-CPU systems with non-ECC memory there is
   >>> significant potential for conflict and error.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> This is good to know.
  >>
  >> Thx Ed.
  >>
   >>> There isn't really a heat problem with low end cases, but if you're
   >>> looking at a $50 case, I hope you're looking at a $100 power supply
   >>> to stick in it. I rarely recommend anything but Antec for dual CPU
   >>> workstations, and never anything less than their True 430 watt. The
   >>> CAN generate some heat, but if you just fill all the available fan
   >>> spots in your case, it should stay sufficiently cool.
   >>>
   >>> Let me know on the application thing and on the AGP thing, and I can
   >>> recommend a board for you.
   >>>
   >>> Ed
   >>>
   >>> @ac wrote:
   >>>
   >>>> I have a multi-threaded application that I am running on a P4 2.8ghz
   >>>> HT where I am just about out of CPU resources. Anyone have any
   >>>> particular recommendations for a dual XEON Supermicro motherboard,
   >>>> including vendors that are not price gouging for these boards?
   >>>>
   >>>> The config I am looking for is 2.6 ghz Dual Xeon, 2GB non-ECC
   >>>> (cheaper than ECC). If I can I would rather not spend hundreds of
   >>>> dollars on a Supermicro case if possible and just buy a $50 INWIN
   >>>> special and equip it with a few fans. Anyone else able to get away
   >>>> with a low end case without having heat dissipation problems with
   >>>> these dual Xeon boards?
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>
  >>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Supermicro on the cheap 

You're starting to make me itch a bit. While you can buy and build this
kind of hardware "on the cheap" you're probably better off not. In my
experience, if you try to trim it too cheap, you get burned, especially
on this class of hardware.
You say, a Dual Xeon is a Dual Xeon, but it's really not. There is a
really wide variety in chipsets, integrated components, quality of
manufacturer, etc. I've heard some interesting things about that ASUS
board, so I can't say you're on the right track there, but I wouldn't go
anywhere near someplace that's selling it for $212. That's an off the
back of a truck price, and you're going to get burned if anything ever
goes south with that. That board also gets you around the Registered
memory requirement, but you're limited to PC2700 memory, so you might
lose a little there. Since you're running Linux, dual Athlon isn't an
entirely bad idea, but they do have reliability and heat problems that
Intel eliminated LONG ago. Based on your price restrictions and
whatnot, it may be worth your time putting in a little more research on
how you could put some more money into your existing hardware to speed
it up. If you're running MySQL and databasey stuff, you might get as
much or more benefit out of more or faster memory, and quite likely out
of faster disks.

Ed

@ac wrote:
 > Thanks for the info. It looks like Supermicro is going to be out of my
 > price range even though it seems to be the way to go for a server mb. I
 > may even take a look at AMD multi processors at this point to open up a
 > whole new can of worms.
 >
 > I found Asus to have a new dual XEON PC-DL for $212 but advertises it
 > for the power user. A dual XEON is a dual XEON so not sure if that makes
 > much of difference that I am using it as an application server.
 >
 > If anyone has any recommendations....?
 >
 > Citizen Ed wrote:
 >
  >> Thanks for the information. Based on that, I would probably go with
  >> the Supermicro X5DE8.
  >> (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=16440) That board
  >> includes a video controller, dual Gigabit Ethernet, and a U320 SCSI
  >> controller. You can use any Xeon processor with a 533 FSB, and up to
  >> 4 GB of memory.
  >> As an alternative, since you have a stated preference for something
  >> inexpensive, you might want to take a look at this:
  >> Use the X5DEi-GG,
  >> (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17332) which is the
  >> same board, just minus the SCSI controller. Then, add a Promise
  >> Serial ATA RAID controller
  >> (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=18549) and a couple
  >> Western Digital 36GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA drives
  >> (http://www.mbx.com/specs/spec_adv.cfm?ProductID=17846) in a striped
  >> RAID array. You can get better performance out of a RAID array than
  >> out of a single SCSI drive, and the overall cost will be lower.
  >> Let me know what you think.
  >>
  >> Ed
  >>
  >> @ac wrote:
  >>
   >>>
   >>> Citizen Ed wrote:
   >>>
   >>>> What application are you running. I can make a better
   >>>> recommendation with that information.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> The application, Mnogosearch is a web based search engine software
   >>> for Linux. My configuration uses Mysql 4.0, a cache Word index which
   >>> is divided into 8192 files and a compressed storage document database
   >>> (several hundred thousand files, 1gb in size). I compile it with gcc
   >>> on my Linux 2.4.20 kernel.
   >>>
   >>> My performance bottlenecks are with mysql and cache database index
   >>> updates eat all my CPU resources. I also lose a little bit of time
   >>> in disk search as it searches the cache database files. Therefore I
   >>> am thinking 60gb SCSI likely would be better than the current ATA-100
   >>> IDE controller. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible
   >>> therefore single drive and no raid.
   >>>
   >>> No AGP needed, and a simple old 8mb video would suffice.
   >>>
   >>>> Do you need AGP? SCSI? You can't run a dual Xeon Supermicro board
   >>>> without ECC Registered memory. They require it for a reason. If
   >>>> you're running multi-CPU systems with non-ECC memory there is
   >>>> significant potential for conflict and error.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> This is good to know.
   >>>
   >>> Thx Ed.
   >>>
   >>>> There isn't really a heat problem with low end cases, but if you're
   >>>> looking at a $50 case, I hope you're looking at a $100 power supply
   >>>> to stick in it. I rarely recommend anything but Antec for dual CPU
   >>>> workstations, and never anything less than their True 430 watt. The
   >>>> CAN generate some heat, but if you just fill all the available fan
   >>>> spots in your case, it should stay sufficiently cool.
   >>>>
   >>>> Let me know on the application thing and on the AGP thing, and I can
   >>>> recommend a board for you.
   >>>>
   >>>> Ed
   >>>>
   >>>> @ac wrote:
   >>>>
   >>>>> I have a multi-threaded application that I am running on a P4
   >>>>> 2.8ghz HT where I am just about out of CPU resources. Anyone have
   >>>>> any particular recommendations for a dual XEON Supermicro
   >>>>> motherboard, including vendors that are not price gouging for these
   >>>>> boards?
   >>>>>
   >>>>> The config I am looking for is 2.6 ghz Dual Xeon, 2GB non-ECC
   >>>>> (cheaper than ECC). If I can I would rather not spend hundreds of
   >>>>> dollars on a Supermicro case if possible and just buy a $50 INWIN
   >>>>> special and equip it with a few fans. Anyone else able to get away
   >>>>> with a low end case without having heat dissipation problems with
   >>>>> these dual Xeon boards?
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>
   >>>
  >>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Supermicro on the cheap