New hardware installed but programs wont run

zaidm wrote:
> I am a keen gamer and a pharmacist who has just started working and I have
> ordered parts and tried to build them into a good PC. I am humbly requesting
> some help from an expert in PC building. I would really appreciate any help.
> I recently ordered parts to construct a good PC: 1) core 2 quad 2.4ghz... 2)
> asus geforce 8800 GTS 3) Abit IP35 motherboard 775 PCE16 DDR2 dual channels
> 800mhz 4) 2x1gb patriot memory modules - all from Aria.co.uk. I also ordered
> 800w power from them as well.
> The first time I built the PC up using the above components, the PC would
> switch on for a couple of seconds, then switch off for four seconds, then
> switch on by itself (loading and displaying the motherboard logo), then when
> it looks like its about to load up windows XP a message comes up quickly and
> then the PC switches off.
> Jumpers were reset then same process happened all over again. If the jumpers
> were not reset, the computer would power up exactly as before but with a
> constant black screen.
> So, I took apart my PC and rebuilt using the same components again...and the
> PC powered up similar way as before (except) I managed to load windows xp to
> desktop, the installed all the relevant drivers for my motherboard, graphics
> card, sound, etc. without any problems.
> HOWEVER, when I load up eg. Konami's Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 and probably
> any other game, blue screen comes up and PC switches off exactly as before,
> and I have to do the jumpers and my PC loads up the Windows XP desktop
> exactly as before (with the switch off then on exactly as before). Again, I
> would really appreciate any helpful advice you can give me.
>

The first issue might be fixed easily - the double start can apparently be
cured with a BIOS update. (Check the reviews on Newegg.com for your board.)
But that is not a priority right now, and more of a cosmetic issue. You can
consider fixing that, if it looks like you'll be keeping the motherboard.

There isn't really a fixed list of reasons for why a motherboard can shut off.
There are some obvious reasons, and reasons that are on the whim of the
motherboard designer.

The ATX PSU has internal protection features, and whether it is a thermal
issue, or some other limit condition, like overcurrent, or a stalled fan,
the PSU can switch off all on its own. If the supply is well designed, you
might note that the supply "latches up". If won't resume operation, until the
rear power switch has been flipped off and then on again.

Modern processors have THERMTRIP, and if the processor temperature rises too
high, the computer will switch off without warning. I'm not sure here, whether
a latchup state is what you'd observe, or some lesser option would restore
operation.

If the Vcore on the motherboard detected a fault, that is potentially another
reason to switch something off. It would be sufficient to just disable Vcore,
leaving the user with a "no POST" condition. But just as easily, the motherboard
designer could tie that into the PS_ON# logic, and cause the motherboard to
switch off the power supply.

If the CPU fan wasn't connected to the CPU fan header, sometimes a board
will switch off in a matter of seconds. In that case, it could be the BIOS
has noted a zero RPM reading from the tachometer input from the CPU fan,
and based on that, the BIOS has turned the board off.

If there are any messages being displayed, they could be very important,
because that implies a more subtle reason for switchoff - something under
software control, and not hardware enforced.

The first thing I'd check out, is CPU temps. The BIOS usually has a
voltage and temperature monitoring page, and you can check that to see
how things are going. On some processors, throttling is at 70C and switch off
might be at 90C (or perhaps 80C and 100C), to give you some idea how much
headroom the temperatures have. My processor is relatively gutless, and
at 100% load, runs at about 43C. So that would be an example of a well
cooled CPU. Some of the higher power CPUs (100W to 130W) cannot be
cooled that well, even with a large cooler. Maybe seeing 60C would not
be out of the question in that case.

One thing that is unclear from your post, is whether Windows was installed
fresh on a brand new drive, or whether this disk is a transplant from your
old system, something you may have done a "Repair Install" to. But whether that
is a red herring or not, really depends on what you can tell us about
any message on the computer screen, just before the power goes off.

If the problem is reproducible on demand, you might try pointing a camcorder at
the monitor, and record the screen as you enter the power off state.
That may allow you to play back the recorded tape, and "freeze frame" on
the screen and what it says.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

Try re-seating your RAM




Fig
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>>> I am a keen gamer and a pharmacist who has just started working and I have
>>> ordered parts and tried to build them into a good PC. I am humbly requesting
>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>> exactly as before (with the switch off then on exactly as before). Again, I
>>> would really appreciate any helpful advice you can give me.
>> The first issue might be fixed easily - the double start can apparently be
>> cured with a BIOS update. (Check the reviews on Newegg.com for your board.)
>> But that is not a priority right now, and more of a cosmetic issue. You can
>> consider fixing that, if it looks like you'll be keeping the motherboard.
>>
>> There isn't really a fixed list of reasons for why a motherboard can shut off.
>> There are some obvious reasons, and reasons that are on the whim of the
>> motherboard designer.
>>
>> The ATX PSU has internal protection features, and whether it is a thermal
>> issue, or some other limit condition, like overcurrent, or a stalled fan,
>> the PSU can switch off all on its own. If the supply is well designed, you
>> might note that the supply "latches up". If won't resume operation, until the
>> rear power switch has been flipped off and then on again.
>>
>> Modern processors have THERMTRIP, and if the processor temperature rises too
>> high, the computer will switch off without warning. I'm not sure here, whether
>> a latchup state is what you'd observe, or some lesser option would restore
>> operation.
>>
>> If the Vcore on the motherboard detected a fault, that is potentially another
>> reason to switch something off. It would be sufficient to just disable Vcore,
>> leaving the user with a "no POST" condition. But just as easily, the motherboard
>> designer could tie that into the PS_ON# logic, and cause the motherboard to
>> switch off the power supply.
>>
>> If the CPU fan wasn't connected to the CPU fan header, sometimes a board
>> will switch off in a matter of seconds. In that case, it could be the BIOS
>> has noted a zero RPM reading from the tachometer input from the CPU fan,
>> and based on that, the BIOS has turned the board off.
>>
>> If there are any messages being displayed, they could be very important,
>> because that implies a more subtle reason for switchoff - something under
>> software control, and not hardware enforced.
>>
>> The first thing I'd check out, is CPU temps. The BIOS usually has a
>> voltage and temperature monitoring page, and you can check that to see
>> how things are going. On some processors, throttling is at 70C and switch off
>> might be at 90C (or perhaps 80C and 100C), to give you some idea how much
>> headroom the temperatures have. My processor is relatively gutless, and
>> at 100% load, runs at about 43C. So that would be an example of a well
>> cooled CPU. Some of the higher power CPUs (100W to 130W) cannot be
>> cooled that well, even with a large cooler. Maybe seeing 60C would not
>> be out of the question in that case.
>>
>> One thing that is unclear from your post, is whether Windows was installed
>> fresh on a brand new drive, or whether this disk is a transplant from your
>> old system, something you may have done a "Repair Install" to. But whether that
>> is a red herring or not, really depends on what you can tell us about
>> any message on the computer screen, just before the power goes off.
>>
>> If the problem is reproducible on demand, you might try pointing a camcorder at
>> the monitor, and record the screen as you enter the power off state.
>> That may allow you to play back the recorded tape, and "freeze frame" on
>> the screen and what it says.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Paul, thank you very much - I have checked my temp.....for some reason, CPU
> temperature at bios is 71 degrees C - but I suspect the activation of any
> graphics card pushes the cpu temp up beyond the 90 degrees C threshold. I
> dont understand why temp is so high - the CPU stock fan is working but yes...
> the whole drive just...feels a little hotter than it should be. Had a look at
> my bro's PC - his CPU temp at bios is 35 degrees C. Specs are similar...only
> difference is my CPU is Quad 2.4ghz and his is Dual (both intel).
> Incidentally, i have only tried to re-install windows without formatting the
> drive. However, I expect that based on my findings above, I dont think it
> would make much of a difference and that it is a hardware problem where I
> just cannot get the temperature down.
>
> Zaidm
>

There are two steppings of Q6600. The B3 stepping draws 10 watts more than
the G0. The G0 is the "good" stepping, but a lot of places sell B3's.
The Q6600 is also known to run pretty warm, and in some cases, a better
cooler than the Intel one, is required. Check the SLxxx code printed
on the label of the box that the processor came in. SL9UM is a B3.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ProcFam=2774&sSpec=&OrdCode=

Reducing the Vcore voltage, could cool off the processor a little bit.
But that can affect stability. That is one way to make a processor
run cooler, without buying another heatsink.

The Zalman 9700NT is an example of a cooler with a theta_R of 0.12C/W
when the fan runs at full speed. If the computer case air temperature
was 35C, the processor was drawing 105W while a game was being played,
then the expected processor temperature would be 35 + (0.12C/W * 105W) = 47.6C.
To work that well, the computer case must have a good exhaust fan, to move
the hot air away from the CPU. There are many other coolers that have
merit, and I suggest looking around for theta_R values and evidence that
the cooler can easily be fitted to an LGA775 socket. Some coolers are
quite big, and are difficult to fit to the motherboard.

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=231&code=009
http://www.crazypc.com/products/50992.html (theta_R listed here)

There are a few coolers compared here.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/tuniq-tower120_8.html
http://www.joker.si/article.php?rubrika=3&articleid=2131&page=15

If a backing plate is required, sometimes there are problems caused by
what is on the back of the motherboard.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/dfi-lp-utnf680i-lt_5.html

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:

> Hi again - yeah, i just found my quad cpu is SLACR - what does that mean? Im
> not even close to having as much experience on this as anyone else in this
> forum, so plz forgive me if i ask too many questions.
>

SLACR is a G0 stepping processor, with a thermal (TDP) rating of 95 watts.
So it isn't the worst of the two. It just means, when doing the arithmetic
in my sample equation, that the power number should be 95 watts. I thought
if, maybe, you had a B3, that would help account for the high temperatures.
If I had to guess, I'd say maybe a push pin wasn't fully seated, or
the area making contact between the heatsink and the processor was
not very good.

(Movie on how to install LGA775 here)
http://cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/24/12/241209_241209.wmv

Some processor/heatsink combinations, don't fit well together. The
heatsink might not be flat. Sometimes, if you're using thermal paste,
instead of the retail TIM applied to the heatsink, you can see a
pattern in the thermal paste, that tells you the thing is fitting
crooked. If that is the case, switching from the Intel provided
thermal interface material, to some Arctic Silver or Arctic Ceramique,
could make a difference for you. It really depends on exactly how
bad the fit is.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

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 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>>> Hi again - yeah, i just found my quad cpu is SLACR - what does that mean? Im
>>> not even close to having as much experience on this as anyone else in this
>>> forum, so plz forgive me if i ask too many questions.
>> SLACR is a G0 stepping processor, with a thermal (TDP) rating of 95 watts.
>> So it isn't the worst of the two. It just means, when doing the arithmetic
>> in my sample equation, that the power number should be 95 watts. I thought
>> if, maybe, you had a B3, that would help account for the high temperatures.
>> If I had to guess, I'd say maybe a push pin wasn't fully seated, or
>> the area making contact between the heatsink and the processor was
>> not very good.
>>
>> (Movie on how to install LGA775 here)
>> http://cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/24/12/241209_241209.wmv
>>
>> Some processor/heatsink combinations, don't fit well together. The
>> heatsink might not be flat. Sometimes, if you're using thermal paste,
>> instead of the retail TIM applied to the heatsink, you can see a
>> pattern in the thermal paste, that tells you the thing is fitting
>> crooked. If that is the case, switching from the Intel provided
>> thermal interface material, to some Arctic Silver or Arctic Ceramique,
>> could make a difference for you. It really depends on exactly how
>> bad the fit is.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks again, Paul.
> How about Arctic Cooling CPU cooler? It has 0.17 C/W thermal resistance. Any
> good? Also, I found and worked out my current Intel fan has thermal
> resistance of 0.378 C/W - is this correct based on the spec values?
>

If you know the theta_R, then you can work out what the CPU temp will
be. Or, reviews on a site like Newegg, may tell you whether the
purchaser was happy with the choice or not (user feedback will tell
you if there is a problem with unit to unit variation in theta_R).

There have been some Intel coolers in the past, around the 0.33 or so
mark, so your determination might not be that far off the mark. The
size of a heatsink, and whether it uses heatpipes, helps determine
whether it'll do a good job or not. The heatpipes make better use of
the available fin area (heat doesn't like to flow through the fin,
and transporting the heat with a heatpipe, into the fin, helps.)
That is why, when you make a 35mmx35mm Northbridge cooler, taller and
taller, the improvement starts to taper off as the fins get taller -
the heat cannot effectively flow to the very end of the fin.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>>>>> Hi again - yeah, i just found my quad cpu is SLACR - what does that mean? Im
>>>>> not even close to having as much experience on this as anyone else in this
>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>>> good? Also, I found and worked out my current Intel fan has thermal
>>> resistance of 0.378 C/W - is this correct based on the spec values?
>> If you know the theta_R, then you can work out what the CPU temp will
>> be. Or, reviews on a site like Newegg, may tell you whether the
>> purchaser was happy with the choice or not (user feedback will tell
>> you if there is a problem with unit to unit variation in theta_R).
>>
>> There have been some Intel coolers in the past, around the 0.33 or so
>> mark, so your determination might not be that far off the mark. The
>> size of a heatsink, and whether it uses heatpipes, helps determine
>> whether it'll do a good job or not. The heatpipes make better use of
>> the available fin area (heat doesn't like to flow through the fin,
>> and transporting the heat with a heatpipe, into the fin, helps.)
>> That is why, when you make a 35mmx35mm Northbridge cooler, taller and
>> taller, the improvement starts to taper off as the fins get taller -
>> the heat cannot effectively flow to the very end of the fin.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks for that. My heatsink may be inadequate but the fan itself i notice
> turns an average of 1700-1800 rpms.
> Also, are there any coolers for Q6600 LGA775 which are better than the arctic
> one?
>

Selection, is a matter of balancing ease of installation, with
performance. Yes, the Tuniq Tower 120 is big, and has good numbers,
as you can see here. But check user comments for how easy it is
to install.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/tuniq-tower120_8.html
http://www.joker.si/article.php?rubrika=3&articleid=2131&page=15

Shopping for a cooler, does require reading a few review articles.
And the comments at Newegg can help you decide as well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001

"Cons: Pain to install. Trying to screw down to the back plate was very
hard on my 775 mobo. the spring on the screw is way to stiff and you
have to push down really really hard for the screw to catch the threads
on the back support plate. May be the threads on the support plate was
not precise. Anyway, the screw catches the back plate and tighten up
in just 1/2 turn.

Other Thoughts: Install this cooler before putting the mobo into
the case."

HTH,
Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

Somewhere on teh interweb zaidm via HWKB.com typed:
>
> One more question, Paul, is the Zalman CNPS9500LED compatible with
> the SLACR Q6600 core 2 quad processor, bearing in mind the LGA775?
> Thanks in advanced

Dude! There's this new thing called "Google". It's what half of us use to
answer questions that people like you post.

Try taking out the middle-man and using it yourself. Put "CNPS9500LED" and
"Q6600" into Goo and spend some time checking out the results. You can even
add words to your search string like "temps" and "review".
--
Shaun.

"Light a fire for a man and he's warm for a day. Set fire to a man and he's
warm for the rest of his life"
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Somewhere on teh interweb zaidm via HWKB.com typed:
>>
>>> One more question, Paul, is the Zalman CNPS9500LED compatible with
>>> the SLACR Q6600 core 2 quad processor, bearing in mind the LGA775?
>>> Thanks in advanced
>> Dude! There's this new thing called "Google". It's what half of us use to
>> answer questions that people like you post.
>>
>> Try taking out the middle-man and using it yourself. Put "CNPS9500LED" and
>> "Q6600" into Goo and spend some time checking out the results. You can even
>> add words to your search string like "temps" and "review".
>
> Haha, chillax man - did that around 2 hours before you posted - in fact
> CNPS9500 (A) LED is compatible with my processor......thank you kindly for
> the thread everybody. Take care guys, misfit.
>

There is a difference between CNPS9500 and the 9700NT. The 9700NT has a four
pin fan connector, while AFAIK, the CNPS9500 has a three pin connector.

The difference is, the four pin fan header includes the "PWM" pin. On some
motherboards, the motherboard can control fan speed via that pin. If you
want that kind of fan control, then perhaps the four pin equipped cooler
would be better. (The Intel retail fan uses a four pin connector.)

You can use a three pin fan, on a four pin connector. There is no harm
that way. The PWM pin remains unconnected to anything, which is fine.

I run my CNPS7000 at full speed, so fan speed is not an issue for me.
I have no interest in a fan that ramps up and down all the time.
I like fixed fan speeds, as that is less distracting.

Instead of using PWM, you can also use a device like the Zalman Fanmate II
to set the fan speed. I use that for some of my other fans. It wouldn't
generally be a good idea, to mix usage of the Fanmate and PWM at the
same time (Intel, at least, mentions that a full 12V must be applied
to the fan, if using the PWM signal for fan control).

I hope that isn't too confusing.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run 

zaidm via HWKB.com wrote:

>
> Hi Paul, I have actually settled for the 9500ALED, which is great (and I knew
> for certain that it is comptaible with my hardware - wasnt aware of any three-
> pins being compatible) and I think comes with its own fan mate. I also would
> like to attain fixed full speeds with my fan, and noise is not an issue for
> me.
> How would I be able to deactivate the PWM signal if I had a fan mate, yet
> still wanted to use the pin?
> Thanks in advance.
>

You should be able to deactivate the PWM feature, in the BIOS. It depends
on what it is called. On an Asus board, fan control is called Q-Fan.

I suppose the hardware would also be accessible by Speedfan, so even if a
BIOS setting disabled something like that, it is possible an application
at the OS level, could still control it.

There is another way to power a CPU fan. This item illustrates the concept.
There are three connectors.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/12-119-149-01.jpg

The 1x4 Molex, is a source of +12V and ground. It connects to the 1x3 male on
the right.

The yellow wire is the tachometer signal. The yellow wire goes to the female
in the middle. By connecting the female to the motherboard CPU header, the
motherboard gets a tachometer (RPM) signal, and that will prevent the BIOS
from becoming upset because there is no RPM signal.

The three pin male on the right, would connect to the Fanmate, and from the
Fanmate, you connect to the fan. Depending on what is on the end of the
Fanmate for a connector, there might still be an issue. That Startech cable
is expecting the fan to have a three pin connector, and the plastic shell
is meant to prevent an accident if the right most connector were to fall
onto the motherboard. The plastic shell prevents the 12V pin from touching
something. So that adapter cable won't solve all problems, but it does
illustrate the concept of delivering the RPM signal (yellow) to the
motherboard's CPU fan header, to prevent problems.

I have a local electronics store, that happens to have some kits so I can
put fan connectors on the ends of wires. In some cases, I'd had to make my
own cabling. All part of the fun...

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: New hardware installed but programs wont run