Need help with new power supply purchase

ridergroov wrote:
> Hello folks. I'm getting ready to build a new box . I don't know
> where to start with what power supply i will buy though. this is what
> I know will be part of it so far:
>
> Nvidia GTS 8800 320mb Superclocked vid card
> Intel Q6600 quad core
> pc2-6400 ram - 2gig
> antec Nine Hundred case (lots of fans)
>
> Any help?
>

8800GTS 320 - rounding the result, say, 12V @ 9A.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/msi8800gts-640_6.html

Q6600 105W, (105W/12V) * (1/0.90) ==> 12V @ 9.72A

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9UM

Disk drive 12V @ 0.6A
CD/DVD boot 12V @ 1.5A
Fans, est. 12V @ 1A

Total current is 12V @ 21.82A or 261.8W. Allowing 50W for
motherboard chips, 20W for misc items, total comes in below
350W. You shouldn't need a monster to power it, but a
carefully selected 500W supply should be good.

The price on this one is now $147. SILENCER 610 EPS12V. It has
two PCI Express 2x3 connectors, and you need one for your video card.
Plenty of amps on the 12V rail. This design uses a single rail.

http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S61EPS&view=techspecs

On an "official" ATX 2.2 supply, with 12V1 and 12V2, the 12V2 powers the
processor, and you'd need 10A for that at a minimum.

This Seasonic has 17A on both 12V rails, and 500W total power max. $124
Only part I'm not sure about, is whether the EPS12V 2x4, splits into
a couple 2x2 connectors or not. The 17A leaves plenty of margin with
respect to the 9.72 needed by the processor, and leaves a little
room for overclocking. You may want to be generous in that regard,
depending on how far you plan on pushing the processor percentage-wise.

+3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 17A, +12V2 @ 17A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2.5A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151034

The above two supplies should have decent efficiency, so the supply itself
won't kick out a lot of waste heat.

This Enermax could probably do the job. $79. A little less efficient perhaps.
A little more waste heat from the PSU.

+3.3V @ 32A, +5V @ 32A, +12V1 @ 22A, +12V2 @ 22A,-12V @ 0.6A, +5VSB @ 3A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194015

Note that, if you zoom in on the power supply label, that Enermax has
power limits that are significant. The 384W max for the 12V rail, means
really the rails are good for a total of 32A, or two 16A outputs. Still
plenty for the job, but not as much margin as the more expensive supplies.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-194-015-04.jpg

At the $42 level, this FSP would be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Here, the ratings are getting as close as physically possible. If you
game this enough, you'll probably eventually cook it. The 14A on 12V1
is just above the 12.1A load. The processor output is in better shape
(unless you are overclocking). In any case, this isn't a serious
option, and is just meant to show how close you could shave it (i.e.
if you were a system builder, and just wanted a computer that lasted
past the 1 year warranty).

+3.3V @ 30A; +5V @ 28A; +12V1 @ 14A; +12V2 @ 15A; -12V @ 0.5A; +5VSB @ 2A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104032

So squint at the labels pictured for the supply, as well as the
text version of the specs, and you should get some idea as to
whether a given supply is enough for the job.

Just don't use one of those $25 supplies. Your parts are worth
too much to risk on something like that.

I use a 50W number for the motherboard, due to the fact that
exact calculation is not possible. Since the 12V dominates the
calculation anyway, a little over or under there, isn't going
to make that much difference.

If you plan on putting a lot of HDD in the box, then this calc
will have to be redone. Startup current can be significant if
using a lot of hard drives. Some recent Seagates draw 2.5A from
12V for the first 10 seconds. Ten of those would make quite a
dent on the 12V1 rail.

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase 

Paul;178208 Wrote:
> ridergroov wrote:
> > Hello folks. I'm getting ready to build a new box . I don't know
> > where to start with what power supply i will buy though. this is
> what
> > I know will be part of it so far:
> >
> > Nvidia GTS 8800 320mb Superclocked vid card
> > Intel Q6600 quad core
> > pc2-6400 ram - 2gig
> > antec Nine Hundred case (lots of fans)
> >
> > Any help?
> >
>
> 8800GTS 320 - rounding the result, say, 12V @ 9A.
>
> 'X-bit labs - Fast and Faster: MSI GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB vs. GeForce
> 8800 GTS 320MB (page 6)'
> (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/msi8800gts-640_6.html)
>
> Q6600 105W, (105W/12V) * (1/0.90) ==> 12V @ 9.72A
>
> 'Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q6600 - SL9UM'
> (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9UM)
>
> Disk drive 12V @ 0.6A
> CD/DVD boot 12V @ 1.5A
> Fans, est. 12V @ 1A
>
> Total current is 12V @ 21.82A or 261.8W. Allowing 50W for
> motherboard chips, 20W for misc items, total comes in below
> 350W. You shouldn't need a monster to power it, but a
> carefully selected 500W supply should be good.
>
> The price on this one is now $147. SILENCER 610 EPS12V. It has
> two PCI Express 2x3 connectors, and you need one for your video card.
> Plenty of amps on the 12V rail. This design uses a single rail.
>
> 'Silencer® 610 EPS12V Power Supply' (http://tinyurl.com/3xg7wg)
>
> On an "official" ATX 2.2 supply, with 12V1 and 12V2, the 12V2 powers
> the
> processor, and you'd need 10A for that at a minimum.
>
> This Seasonic has 17A on both 12V rails, and 500W total power max.
> $124
> Only part I'm not sure about, is whether the EPS12V 2x4, splits into
> a couple 2x2 connectors or not. The 17A leaves plenty of margin with
> respect to the 9.72 needed by the processor, and leaves a little
> room for overclocking. You may want to be generous in that regard,
> depending on how far you plan on pushing the processor
> percentage-wise.
>
> +3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 17A, +12V2 @ 17A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @
> 2.5A
> 'Newegg.com - SeaSonic S12 II SS-500GB ATX12V / EPS12V 500W Power
> Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CE, CB, TUV, FCC - Retail'
> (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151034)
>
> The above two supplies should have decent efficiency, so the supply
> itself
> won't kick out a lot of waste heat.
>
> This Enermax could probably do the job. $79. A little less efficient
> perhaps.
> A little more waste heat from the PSU.
>
> +3.3V @ 32A, +5V @ 32A, +12V1 @ 22A, +12V2 @ 22A,-12V @ 0.6A, +5VSB @
> 3A
> 'Newegg.com - ENERMAX EG495AX-VE FMA ATX12V Ver 2.2 485W Power Supply
> 100 - 240 V UL, cUL, TUV, CB - Retail'
> (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194015)
>
> Note that, if you zoom in on the power supply label, that Enermax has
> power limits that are significant. The 384W max for the 12V rail,
> means
> really the rails are good for a total of 32A, or two 16A outputs.
> Still
> plenty for the job, but not as much margin as the more expensive
> supplies.
>
> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-194-015-04.jpg
>
> At the $42 level, this FSP would be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
> Here, the ratings are getting as close as physically possible. If you
> game this enough, you'll probably eventually cook it. The 14A on 12V1
> is just above the 12.1A load. The processor output is in better shape
> (unless you are overclocking). In any case, this isn't a serious
> option, and is just meant to show how close you could shave it (i.e.
> if you were a system builder, and just wanted a computer that lasted
> past the 1 year warranty).
>
> +3.3V @ 30A; +5V @ 28A; +12V1 @ 14A; +12V2 @ 15A; -12V @ 0.5A; +5VSB @
> 2A
> 'Newegg.com - FSP Group (Fortron Source) FSP400-60THN ATX2.0 attached
> PCi-Express Connector 400W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CSA, VDE, NEMKO,
> TUV, CE, CB, FCC - OEM'
> (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104032)
>
> So squint at the labels pictured for the supply, as well as the
> text version of the specs, and you should get some idea as to
> whether a given supply is enough for the job.
>
> Just don't use one of those $25 supplies. Your parts are worth
> too much to risk on something like that.
>
> I use a 50W number for the motherboard, due to the fact that
> exact calculation is not possible. Since the 12V dominates the
> calculation anyway, a little over or under there, isn't going
> to make that much difference.
>
> If you plan on putting a lot of HDD in the box, then this calc
> will have to be redone. Startup current can be significant if
> using a lot of hard drives. Some recent Seagates draw 2.5A from
> 12V for the first 10 seconds. Ten of those would make quite a
> dent on the 12V1 rail.
>
> Paul

500W would always be a great idea if you can find a great price for it.
Why not look at a 400W? You can find lots of them for under $100.00
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase 

ridergroov wrote:

> Also, how can I find out what power supply I have? I know I have an
> antec, but there is no sticker on it..pretty weird. I might ahve
> taken it off or something. I seem to remember it getting ruined or
> something.

Post photos of your PSU at a place like Flickr.com, not only of the
outside (back, front, top, even bottom) but also the inside, and
somebody should be able to identify it from the shapes of the
heatsinks, arrangement and sizes of the fans, whether the power cables
come out from the left or right, or even the pattern of the studs in
the bottom or the vent holes. Websites that do good reviews of PSUs,
like XbitLabs.com, www.hardOCP.com, and www.SilentPCreview.com, have
photos of the insides of many units and also forums.

I hope you're not running with the PSU r removed because that not only
creates a potentially lethal shock hazard (as much as 340V is exposed
inside), but it also worsens the cooling (www.silentpcreview.com ran
tests). It can also let the case flex enough to short a heatsink to
ground because on many Antecs, including SmartPowers and TruePowers,
one of the heatsinks has 170VDC on it.

Antec gets its PSUs from three different suppliers -- Seasonic (NeoHE,
Trio, Earthwatts models), Fortron-Source (Basiq), and Channel Well
Technology (SmartPower, TruePower, Neo). The first two are very good,
while the last company has been having problems with the soldering and
uses capacitors that tend to fail prematurely (partly because they're
bad, partly because those particular Antecs spin their fans at very
slow speeds). The two other manufacturers make very good products,
and I'd rather have a Basiq than a Channel Well-made model any day,
despite the shorter 1-year warranty and slightly louder fan.

With a fast graphics card and quad core CPU, consider getting a high
quality PSU that's both ATI Crossfire and nVidia SLi certified. Stick
with manufacturers that are highly recommended at the websites
mentioned above.
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase 

In article <f6hgil$e09$1@aioe.org>, Paul <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
>ridergroov wrote:
>

....

>If you plan on putting a lot of HDD in the box, then this calc
>will have to be redone. Startup current can be significant if
>using a lot of hard drives. Some recent Seagates draw 2.5A from
>12V for the first 10 seconds. Ten of those would make quite a
>dent on the 12V1 rail.
>

I can easily see myself putting 3 disks in a "desktop" system. Is
there any gear that I can selct that can start them one at a time?






--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase 

Al Dykes wrote:
> In article <f6hgil$e09$1@aioe.org>, Paul <nospam.TakeThisOut@needed.com> wrote:
>> ridergroov wrote:
>>
>
> ...
>
>> If you plan on putting a lot of HDD in the box, then this calc
>> will have to be redone. Startup current can be significant if
>> using a lot of hard drives. Some recent Seagates draw 2.5A from
>> 12V for the first 10 seconds. Ten of those would make quite a
>> dent on the 12V1 rail.
>>
>
> I can easily see myself putting 3 disks in a "desktop" system. Is
> there any gear that I can selct that can start them one at a time?
>

In past years, you could do that with SCSI disks. It was called
staggered spin, and it actually worked. If the BIOS was designed right,
it might have been possible to do it with current disks. But it doesn't
work that way now. At least, I've never read any accounts of people
managing to set it up on a desktop system.

Staggered spin is enabled with a jumper here. But if the BIOS immediately
hammers all SATA ports, looking for drives, they'll all spin at the same
time. (I think the jumper controls response to ATA-6 method, whatever
that is.)

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=958

I can find a reference to an "OOB sequence" to support staggered spin,
implying the SATA cable presents abnormal voltage levels on the cable,
to prevent the drive from spinning. But I cannot find any more detail.
"Staggered Spin" appears to be added to a lot of adverts, without
explaining anything.

I found this in a 3Ware manual:

"(Optional) If staggered spinup is desired (and supported by
your hard drives), set the appropriate jumpers on your hard
drives to enable staggered spinup.

Later, you will need to enable staggered spinup and specify the
staggered method (ATA-6 or SATA OOB) in the 3ware BIOS
Manager (3BM). For more information, see the 3ware 9000
Series Serial ATA RAID Controller User Guide."

I guess it would cost me $25 to get the answer

https://www.serialata.org/secure/spec_download.asp

Paul
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase 

Paul <nospam RemoveThis @needed.com> wrote:

> Al Dykes wrote:

>> I can easily see myself putting 3 disks in a "desktop" system. Is
>> there any gear that I can selct that can start them one at a time?
>>
>
> In past years, you could do that with SCSI disks. It was called
> staggered spin, and it actually worked. If the BIOS was designed
> right, it might have been possible to do it with current disks. But
> it doesn't work that way now. At least, I've never read any accounts
> of people managing to set it up on a desktop system.

I don't recall actually setting it up, but I do vaguely recall that
option being available with some ordinary IDE disk drives.











> Paul
>
 >> Stay informed about: Need help with new power supply purchase