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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:41 pm
Post subject: Value of integrated graphics on mobo
Archived from groups: uk>comp>vendors, others (more info?)
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Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:
Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc |
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External
Since: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 481
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware (more info?)
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:41:40 +0100, Lem <lem.TakeThisOut@mail.com> wrote:
>Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
>offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
>quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc
Depends on where you live.
Frankly all the integrated graphics are barely OK.
The best I think Ive seen was the 400 MX level
since thats recognizable - one of the most popular chipsets for video
cards a while back so its still widely supported.
The other ones - you just dont see anyone buying a card with those
chips on it nowadays .
The 400 mx level is still very usable though even that is outdated in
the sense it cant run some games anymore. Im not just talking speed
though there is that aspect - it cant run some new games like Silent
Hill 3 etc that support some features in Direct X 9. If running games
isnt that important its still usable on most apps.
And the TV cards I bought run with the 400-420 mx and even my ATI
9800. While a neighbor bought an emachines with an integrated
graphics savage chip set and that went bonkers with a ATI TV card.
I gave him an ancient VOODOO 3 card I had and that worked perfectly
with the TV card. The problem with that card though is its far more
ancient than the 400 mx card and refuses to play a wide variety of
games since it has such little mem onboard.
What I dont like about the other graphics stuff though even that is
probably OK for users who have really modest needs - since its not
that well known I wonder about driver support , conflicts with other
stuff (like TV tuner cards) and going a bit too low in overall design
( really measly memory or shared memory etc) .
Its hard to get a card below $30-40 thats even standable - unless you
find a big sale somewhere or refurb. Thats kind of the cutoff point.
You usually see some really old ancient cards sold here and there or
some oddball design. If you are a real deal hound you can find refurbs
and rebate deals. So overall you can save a fair amount of money in
the real low end - if you want to put together a really low cost
system.
I bought a Leadtek refurb recently for someone from Newegg because it
had 400 mx graphics and was a nforce2 chipset with a fair amount
slots - for $50. I was actually waiting for the ASUS nforce2 chipset
with 400mx rufrb to get in stock but it rarely is - the one for $41 I
think. THere was the free motherboard after rebate deal from SOYO at
Mwave but it only has 3 slots and some weird graphics and I think its
only a 266 board or 333 board.
Eventhough the 400 and 440 mx are outdated they are still regularly
sold for $40 after rebate and $40-60 at most retail outlets.
A few times Tiger Direct has had the 9000 I think with the lowest
amount of mem for $29 after rebate. Office Depot had a clearance sale
on the 7000 ATI 32 megs for $14 a while back. I missed that one but
got a 420 mx for $20 that was there. If you really look you might be
able to pick up.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 54
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: uk>comp>vendors, others (more info?)
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"Lem" <lem RemoveThis @mail.com> wrote in message
news:94C48122C145691F3A2@130.133.1.4...
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc
About $50 US or less. -Dave<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 342
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware, others (more info?)
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Lem wrote:
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
$30-40USD, at most.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: uk>comp>vendors, others (more info?)
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"Lem" <lem RemoveThis @mail.com> wrote in message
news:94C48122C145691F3A2@130.133.1.4...
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc
Although I have not used a mobo with on-board graphics for a while, I would
be surprised if the above would be better than a FX5200/Radeon 9200 at
around £30 + VAT?
--
Doug Ramage<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Doug Ramage" <namxat666.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics
>> card offering the same sort of quality as the integrated
>> graphics on a quality motherboard like:
>>
>> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
>> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
>> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
>> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
>> etc
>
> Although I have not used a mobo with on-board graphics for a
> while, I would be surprised if the above would be better than
> a FX5200/Radeon 9200 at around £30 + VAT?
> --
I looked at Dabs for a price of the Radeon 9200. There was an SE
and a non-SE version:
Sapphire Radeon 9200 64MB DDR AGP RP VIVO £54.50 + P&P
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/2xp6g" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2xp6g</a>
Sapphire Radeon 9200SE 64MB DDR AGP VO £34.50 + P&P
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/2q9nl" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2q9nl</a>
I am told the SE version is much inferior. Are you referring to
the SE or non-SE version?
Just as "SE" seems important, are RP and VIVO important? (Whatever
they are?)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lem wrote:
> I looked at Dabs for a price of the Radeon 9200. There was an SE
> and a non-SE version:
>
> Sapphire Radeon 9200 64MB DDR AGP RP VIVO £54.50 + P&P
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/2xp6g</font" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2xp6g</font</a>>
>
> Sapphire Radeon 9200SE 64MB DDR AGP VO £34.50 + P&P
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/2q9nl</font" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/2q9nl</font</a>>
>
> I am told the SE version is much inferior. Are you referring to
> the SE or non-SE version?
>
IIRC the SE runs at a lower clock speed has fewer pipelines (or some are
disabled) than the non-SE.
I suspect that, like CPUs, they make one chip and test it at the design
spec, if it passes it becomes a non-SE, but if it fails then they test
it at a reduced spec, if it passes it becomes an SE, if it fails it gets
binned. This increases the overall yield from the wafers so keeps down
the price of the non-SE cards.
> Just as "SE" seems important, are RP and VIVO important? (Whatever
> they are?)
RP == Retail Pack(age)
VIVO == Video-In/Video-Out
The former means it comes in a colourful box with manual etc (and maybe
a bonus game or two). The latter means it has a S-Video connector.
Regards,
Parish<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:21:36 +0100, Parish wrote:
>> I am told the SE version is much inferior. Are you referring to the SE
>> or non-SE version?
>>
>>
> IIRC the SE runs at a lower clock speed has fewer pipelines (or some are
> disabled) than the non-SE.
>
> I suspect that, like CPUs, they make one chip and test it at the design
> spec, if it passes it becomes a non-SE, but if it fails then they test
> it at a reduced spec, if it passes it becomes an SE, if it fails it gets
> binned. This increases the overall yield from the wafers so keeps down
> the price of the non-SE cards.
SE's are non-SE chips that failed QA. You can softmod most SE's back to
their original non-SE settings. You'll find 95% of the time they work fine
at the higher speed.
--
-Geoff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: May 20, 2004
Posts: 18
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Meg A Hurtz" <mega.hurtz.RemoveThis@hertz.com> wrote in message
news:94C4A991EF45271F3M4@64.62.191.8...
> >> IIRC the SE runs at a lower clock speed has fewer pipelines
> >> (or some are disabled) than the non-SE.
> >>
> >> I suspect that, like CPUs, they make one chip and test it at
> >> the design spec, if it passes it becomes a non-SE, but if it
> >> fails then they test it at a reduced spec, if it passes it
> >> becomes an SE, if it fails it gets binned. This increases the
> >> overall yield from the wafers so keeps down the price of the
> >> non-SE cards.
>
> Geoffrey King <gking.RemoveThis@evildomain.dyndns.org> wrote:
> >
> > SE's are non-SE chips that failed QA. You can softmod most
> > SE's back to their original non-SE settings. You'll find 95%
> > of the time they work fine at the higher speed.
>
> Very interesting. How do you do this?
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/index.php" target="_blank">http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/index.php</a>
HTH
--
Rob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Geoffrey King <gking RemoveThis @evildomain.dyndns.org> wrote:
>>
>> SE's are non-SE chips that failed QA. You can softmod most
>> SE's back to their original non-SE settings. You'll find 95%
>> of the time they work fine at the higher speed.
>
> Very interesting. How do you do this?
Well I've only ever Softmodded a 9800SE back to original Pro specs. I used
the Omega drivers which include a softmod for the 9800SE.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.omegacorner.com/" target="_blank">http://www.omegacorner.com/</a>
There's some links for other ATI cards here:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://softmod.ocfaq.com/download.php" target="_blank">http://softmod.ocfaq.com/download.php</a>
Bear in mind that cards modded in this fashion may
a) not work at all.
b) overheat.
c) suffer from display corruption and/or dead pixels.
d) cause general system instability. (usually due to b)
There's a reason why the card failed QA.
--
-Geoff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <94C4A991EF45271F3M4 DeleteThis @64.62.191.8>, "Meg A Hurtz"
mega.hurtz DeleteThis @hertz.com says...
> >> IIRC the SE runs at a lower clock speed has fewer pipelines
> >> (or some are disabled) than the non-SE.
> >>
> >> I suspect that, like CPUs, they make one chip and test it at
> >> the design spec, if it passes it becomes a non-SE, but if it
> >> fails then they test it at a reduced spec, if it passes it
> >> becomes an SE, if it fails it gets binned. This increases the
> >> overall yield from the wafers so keeps down the price of the
> >> non-SE cards.
>
> Geoffrey King <gking DeleteThis @evildomain.dyndns.org> wrote:
> >
> > SE's are non-SE chips that failed QA. You can softmod most
> > SE's back to their original non-SE settings. You'll find 95%
> > of the time they work fine at the higher speed.
>
> Very interesting. How do you do this?
>
Flash the BIOS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 201
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Lem" <lem DeleteThis @mail.com> wrote in message
news:94C48122C145691F3A2@130.133.1.4...
> Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc
Onboard video is good for pretty much anything except gaming. The biggest
issue is they can share system memory, so it isn't available for programs to
run.
The only real thing to watch for is that you get something with an AGP slot
so you can add a real video card if you like.
Any low end addon card should be able to replace onboard and be an
improvement at the same time... $40 and under shouldn't be a problem.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>> IIRC the SE runs at a lower clock speed has fewer pipelines
>> (or some are disabled) than the non-SE.
>>
>> I suspect that, like CPUs, they make one chip and test it at
>> the design spec, if it passes it becomes a non-SE, but if it
>> fails then they test it at a reduced spec, if it passes it
>> becomes an SE, if it fails it gets binned. This increases the
>> overall yield from the wafers so keeps down the price of the
>> non-SE cards.
Geoffrey King <gking RemoveThis @evildomain.dyndns.org> wrote:
>
> SE's are non-SE chips that failed QA. You can softmod most
> SE's back to their original non-SE settings. You'll find 95%
> of the time they work fine at the higher speed.
Very interesting. How do you do this?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 23
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Noozer" <postmaster DeleteThis @127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:3%Vcc.42263$Pk3.26952@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Lem" <lem DeleteThis @mail.com> wrote in message
> news:94C48122C145691F3A2@130.133.1.4...
> > Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
> > offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
> > quality motherboard like:
> >
> > Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> > Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> > Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> > MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> > etc
>
> Onboard video is good for pretty much anything except gaming. The biggest
> issue is they can share system memory, so it isn't available for programs
to
> run.
>
> The only real thing to watch for is that you get something with an AGP
slot
> so you can add a real video card if you like.
>
> Any low end addon card should be able to replace onboard and be an
> improvement at the same time... $40 and under shouldn't be a problem.
>
>
My mate has a 1000mhz Compaq SFF with 64mb o/b ram(256 sdram), he brings it
round for lan games and on SOF2 has to drop detail level nex to nothing, no
agp slot, so i installed a PCI 64mb gfx card, now it runs the same jsut as
good as my old 64mb AGP Gforce mx2 thing me jig card. found that hard to
belive esp due to the fact of the pci bus speed wotsit.
Im surprised how man pcs still dont have a agp slot.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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External
Since: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Value of integrated graphics on mobo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware>homebuilt (more info?)
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$40.00 - $75.00. Hard to find inexpensive video cards. The ATI9200
comes to mind. Nvida uses a MX440 or something like that. An ATI
9600SE may be pretty close to that price. Might find some used video
cards like a ATI 9000 PRO OR a Gforce2 GTS-V Chip.
>Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
>offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
>quality motherboard like:
>
> Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
> Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
> Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
> MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
> etc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Value of integrated graphics on mobo |
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