This news has made AMD'ers happy

Tony Hill wrote:
 > Yes it has, at least in the very narrow market that is defined as
 > "retail desktops".
 >
 > Note that "retail desktops" only includes something like 15% of the
 > world market. Dell need not apply at all, they don't sell into retail
 > channels, just mail order. Business desktops don't count either, and
 > certainly laptops, workstations and servers aren't counted here. Only
 > the Compaq Presarios and eMachines of the world sold at CompUSA, Best
 > Buy, etc. Ohh, and this is only in North America, so all in all
 > you're looking at a very small portion of the world market.

Which was all mentioned in the original posting.

 > As mentioned above, this is NOT the first time this has happened
 > either. Back in the K6-2 days and early Athlon days there were times
 > when AMD was beating Intel in the North American retail desktop market
 > as well. I think they got up to about 60% of this market at their
 > peak.

Although at that time, the one difference was that Cyrix was still a strong
contender, having 15% of the retail NA market. Another difference was that
back then this was all achieved on the back of a scorched-earth price war
between the manufacturers. Intel had it's high-end and low-end products, it
let the low-end participate in the muck against the "cloners" at that time,
while it continued to rake in profits from the high-end. This time, there's
no scorched-earth competition going on.

So there are similarities to 99, but then there are also major differences.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

Judd wrote:
 > Intel still sold over 80% of all CPUs (something like 83%). They
 > killed in the notebook market and server markets which have the
 > highest margins. Thus, Intel likely profited far more than AMD. It
 > is still a great sign for AMD. We'll see what happens this next
 > quarter when Intel ups the ante with Grantsdale/Alderwood and a 3.6
 > GHz part along with Dothan.

Actually, I think the overall total for that one particular week was Intel
sold only 61% of all CPUs, and AMD sold between 37-38% of all CPUs.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

On Thu, 06 May 2004 21:49:59 GMT, "Yousuf Khan"
<news.tally.bbbl67.DeleteThis@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
 >Judd wrote:
  >> Intel still sold over 80% of all CPUs (something like 83%). They
  >> killed in the notebook market and server markets which have the
  >> highest margins. Thus, Intel likely profited far more than AMD. It
  >> is still a great sign for AMD. We'll see what happens this next
  >> quarter when Intel ups the ante with Grantsdale/Alderwood and a 3.6
  >> GHz part along with Dothan.
 >
 >Actually, I think the overall total for that one particular week was Intel
 >sold only 61% of all CPUs, and AMD sold between 37-38% of all CPUs.

If that is indeed accurate, that would be VERY good news for AMD!
However I'd be extremely skeptical of that number, that would be more
than double the amount of chips that AMD was selling just a couple of
months earlier. If AMD managed even 20% of the total CPU market for
the week they were doing well, but I'd be surprised if the managed
anything more.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

"Tony Hill" <hilla_nospam_20 DeleteThis @yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:0tnl909s48uqfb1aiqpn533s2e2s4cc941@4ax.com...
  > >Actually, I think the overall total for that one particular week was
Intel
  > >sold only 61% of all CPUs, and AMD sold between 37-38% of all CPUs.
 >
 > If that is indeed accurate, that would be VERY good news for AMD!
 > However I'd be extremely skeptical of that number, that would be more
 > than double the amount of chips that AMD was selling just a couple of
 > months earlier. If AMD managed even 20% of the total CPU market for
 > the week they were doing well, but I'd be surprised if the managed
 > anything more.

Well, let's remember one thing, these are all figures for a single _week_ of
production, not an entire month, let alone an entire quarter, let alone an
entire year. I think AMD can handle an extra large order for a single week
at the very least. Besides, the article never really suggested whether AMD
took that extra large share of the week due to much greater demand for its
products or simply because the overall market just shrank, during that week.
I suspect that it's mostly that it was a slow week, and AMD didn't slow down
as much as Intel did.

Yousuf Khan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

On Wed, 5 May 2004 23:34:56 -0400, KR Williams <krw.TakeThisOut@att.biz> wrote:

 >In article <5kqi90hmg5e6mufh9k9dbslujscl63cabk.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
 >fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com says...
  >> On Tue, 4 May 2004 22:56:09 -0400, KR Williams <krw.TakeThisOut@att.biz> wrote:
  >>
   >> >In article <cTVlc.52265$DrD1.17933
   >> >@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, news.20.bbbl67
   >> >@spamgourmet.com says...
   >> >> Seems that for one week this past month, there were more AMD-based desktops
   >> >> sold than Intel-based.
   >> >>
<font color=brown>   >> >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.technewsworld.com/story/hardware/33636.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.technewsworld.com/story/hardware/33636.html</font</a>>
   >> >>
   >> >> For the week ending April 24th, 52% of retail desktops were AMD, and only
   >> >> 47% were Intel. Minor, temporary victory? Absolutely. Just a victory in one
   >> >> geographical market, North America? Sure. Just represents retail sales only?
   >> >> Yup. Achieved in the middle of an overall bad quarter? Possibly.
   >> >>
   >> >> But has this situation ever arisen before, where AMD outsold Intel? I've
   >> >> never seen it, ever.
   >> >
   >> >Bums me out. The prices for AMD widgets has gone up, just when
   >> >I'm about to dive in. Bastards!
   >> >
   >> >Serioulsy, I've got the guts picked out, simply thinking about a
   >> >case and a graphics card. Suggestions? Note that the case must
   >> >support SuSE and dual monitors.
  >>
  >> Hmmm, I'm nearly ready to take the toe-dip(?) myself. For a graphics
  >> card, nVidia has come a long way on the 2D and I'm still nervous about
  >> previous ATI "driver of the week" syndrome results.
 >
 >Well... Graphics cards look like a big bugaboo. Unless anyone
 >can convince me otherwise, I think I'm going safe: Matrox G550.
 >I'm really a 2D kinda guy anyway (and dual monitors are a must).

Yeah I *think* Matrox still has the best 2D, though it's been a long while
since I bought one - G200... probably still better than even current nVidia
and ATI for 2D.

 >BTW, my board of choice is the Tyan 2875S and a Opteron 144. I'd
 >like to go more, but the CFO has already expanded the budget a
 >few times. Going back for even more may get expensive. .
 >
  >> For a case, I never
  >> even bother to look beyond Antec now but choose carefully according to the
  >> power supply if included - the TruePower ones have a thermistor controlled
  >> fan in the P/S and special connectors for controlling the case fans off the
  >> same temp measurement.
 >
 >Ok... How about the SX1040BII:
 >http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-
 >120&depa=0 (sorry for the split)

In the office, I have a SX840 for a user system and SX1240 (6x5.25 external
bays) for our server. Those are both older models and beige of course but
I like them - the swing-out side panels are nice and cable routing is neat:
I tie-wire the mbrd and rear fan wiring into the flanged bar across the
upper half of the case and it makes for a clean interior.

I dunno if the black SX models have as good a finish as the beige, which
still has baked enamel, but I'd hope so. The 660AMGs we have are nice but
that grey metallic finish is just regular paint and scratches more easily.
With two standard rear exhaust fans you shouldn't need any extra fans - not
sure if those case fans have individual thermistor control or not. The
SmartPower P/S fan is temp controlled so it should not be noisy unless
maybe you're "pounding" on it.

On the SX models we have, you don't have to have those feet sticking out -
if the standing surface is stable, you can swivel the feet in under the
case.

  >> The Plus AMG cases seem to work fine in our office
  >> and I'm looking at that or the Lifestyle series Sonata for my home system.
 >
 >The Sonata didn't look all that interesting, though I'm willing
 >to be convinced otherwise.

I haven't tried it myself but others have made favorable comments.

 >I'm also 99.44% sure I'm going with SuSE (they've even gotten
 >smart and are packaging the 64b version along with the 32b
 >package).

Sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

 >
 > Serioulsy, I've got the guts picked out, simply thinking about a
 > case and a graphics card. Suggestions? Note that the case must
 > support SuSE and dual monitors.

You mean someone not only makes cases that are OS-dependent
but they also support dual monitor <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

In article <c7ccuv$eor$1@nntp.webmaster.com>,
davids.TakeThisOut@webmaster.com says...
 >
 > "KR Williams" <krw.TakeThisOut@att.biz> wrote in message
 > news:MPG.1b037c1d2e49a951989813@news1.news.adelphia.net...
 >
  > > Well... Graphics cards look like a big bugaboo. Unless anyone
  > > can convince me otherwise, I think I'm going safe: Matrox G550.
  > > I'm really a 2D kinda guy anyway (and dual monitors are a must).
  > >
  > > BTW, my board of choice is the Tyan 2875S and a Opteron 144. I'd
  > > like to go more, but the CFO has already expanded the budget a
  > > few times. Going back for even more may get expensive. .
 >
 > Any suggestions on what we should put in our next desktop box for our
 > top developers? Our current box has dual 2.4Ghz Xeons on a Tyan i7505
 > Thunder (S2665), 4 512Mb ECC DIMMs, a 3Ware 7500-4LP with 4 120Gb Maxtor
 > drives. The graphics card is a Matrox Parhelia with two 18" LCD monitors
 > (Currently NEC LCD1850X).

Without knowing your build process, this would be an impossible
task. If they build on their own systems (ick) you may want to
give them some peachy-keen latest stuff. If you're doing
software for the general public, you'll likely want a variety of
hardware to test/develop on. If you're doing large development,
you really ought to have a background build system that doesn't'
rely on the developer's desktop much at all.

In any case, give them at *least* two 20" monitors in a dual-
screen setup. If you can afford laptops, do the same. Dual
screen is a huge benefit to anyone doing development. Flat-
displays are an incremental bonus.
 >
 > Our plan is tentatively a dual Opteron box with 4 SATA RAID drives,
 > probably using a 3Ware controller as well. We're hoping for 4Gb of RAM as
 > dual 128-bit memory busses. I've looked at many motherboards and they all
 > have large numbers of insane drawbacks. (Who thought it was a good idea to
 > connect the onboard gigabit LAN to the legacy 32-bit/33Mhz PCI bus?)

I'm assuming all of your developers work independently. If so,
fine. If they're collaborating, you'd better get a little
stronger. CVS and background builds are in your future.
Building software (or hardware in my case) just isn't reasonable
peace-meal.

 > I'd love suggestions on the graphics card

So far the Matrox G550 is winning my popularity contest. It has
the reputation (as all Matro cards) of being a business graphics
card, and isn't really suitable for 3D. As is designed, so be
it.

 > and motherboard especially.

That obviously depends on the processor you choose.

 > Also SATA RAID recommendations would be appreciated.

Why? What are you going to do for backup? Me thinks you have
the horsed after the cart.

 > Anybody have a gut
 > reaction of whether a developer would prefer dual xeons or dual opterons,
 > assuming they're not religious.

This "developer" certainly does. Though I don't do that icky
"software" stuff. . Indeed if I truly had my choice, well
nevermind , the CFO would never approve.

--
Keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

KR Williams <krw.TakeThisOut@att.biz> writes:
 > Ok... How about the SX1040BII:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-</font" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-</font</a>>
 > 120&depa=0 (sorry for the split)
 >
  > > The Plus AMG cases seem to work fine in our office
  > > and I'm looking at that or the Lifestyle series Sonata for my home system.
 >
 > The Sonata didn't look all that interesting, though I'm willing
 > to be convinced otherwise.

I have both a 1040 and a Sonata sitting beside each other. The Sonata
is *much* quieter. The rubber-grommet disk mounts are also a nice
touch for disks that have noisy arms. (The quiet disks with a ramped
voltage to the disk arm are getting hard to find. It appears that
some company managed to patent the idea of not whacking the arm
solenoid with a square wave.)

(Asus k8v-se-d, 2Ghz Athlon64 3200, Matrox g550, Seagate Barracuda
80g, Sonata case, Openbsd)

-wolfgang
--
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/" target="_blank">http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

In article <x78yg456s4.fsf DeleteThis @bonnet.wsrcc.com>,
wolfgang+gnus20040507T131207@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com
says...
 >
 > KR Williams <krw DeleteThis @att.biz> writes:
  > > Ok... How about the SX1040BII:
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-</font" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-</font</a>>
  > > 120&depa=0 (sorry for the split)
  > >
   > > > The Plus AMG cases seem to work fine in our office
   > > > and I'm looking at that or the Lifestyle series Sonata for my home system.
  > >
  > > The Sonata didn't look all that interesting, though I'm willing
  > > to be convinced otherwise.
 >
 > I have both a 1040 and a Sonata sitting beside each other. The Sonata
 > is *much* quieter.

I wish I'd read this yesterday.

 > The rubber-grommet disk mounts are also a nice
 > touch for disks that have noisy arms. (The quiet disks with a ramped
 > voltage to the disk arm are getting hard to find. It appears that
 > some company managed to patent the idea of not whacking the arm
 > solenoid with a square wave.)

I didn't think any drives rapped the voice-coil with a square
wave. I thought the waveforms were quite complex (initial whack,
sustain, tail), with the energy driven in each phase depending on
the distance of the move. At least that's sorta the results I
got from looking at the performance characteristics of various
drives five or six years ago (time flies).

 > (Asus k8v-se-d, 2Ghz Athlon64 3200, Matrox g550, Seagate Barracuda
 > 80g, Sonata case, Openbsd)

Final toy = Tyan 2875, Opteron 144 (1.8GHz), Matrox G550, Antec
1040, SuSE, and a disk drive to be named later (in the mean time
an IBM DeskStar, likely the old 37GB, promoted from this system).

--
Keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

In article <109nnt0khq3dd63 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>,
rob.stow DeleteThis @sasktel.net says...
  > >
  > > Serioulsy, I've got the guts picked out, simply thinking about a
  > > case and a graphics card. Suggestions? Note that the case must
  > > support SuSE and dual monitors.
 >
 > You mean someone not only makes cases that are OS-dependent
 > but they also support dual monitor

....just seeing who's sleeping.

--
Keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

In article <bpnh90lup1s0ule8ai95qb9kmsoimkq6a8.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, chrisv.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid
says...
 > "Allan Parent" <allanp.RemoveThis@nospamformecharter.net> wrote:
 >
  > >Yep, at the present time, AMD sports a better CPU at a lower price so it is
  > >no wonder they are outselling Intel.
 >
 > But they didn't.
 >
 >
Who cares..AMD sports the 64 and intel sports a 32,everything AMD does now will
be gravy to an already advanced process,that's about as future-proof as you can
get today IMO..I just wish I could afford the AMD FX.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

In article <MPG.1b037c1d2e49a951989813 RemoveThis @news1.news.adelphia.net>, krw RemoveThis @att.biz
says...
 > Well... Graphics cards look like a big bugaboo. Unless anyone
 > can convince me otherwise, I think I'm going safe: Matrox G550.
 > I'm really a 2D kinda guy anyway (and dual monitors are a must).
 >
 >
 >
For what the Matrox does it is the best and they seem to stay on the same track
they layed several years ago only refining an already great product with top-notch
support.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy 

KR Williams wrote:

 > In article <5kqi90hmg5e6mvfh9k9dbslvjscl63cabk@4ax.com>,
 > fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellvrian.com says...
 >
  >>On Tve, 4 May 2004 22:56:09 -0400, KR Williams <krw RemoveThis @att.biz> wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>In article <cTVlc.52265$DrD1.17933
   >>>@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, news.20.bbbl67
   >>>@spamgovrmet.com says...
   >>>
   >>>> Seems that for one week this past month, there were more AMD-based desktops
   >>>>sold than Intel-based.
   >>>>
   >>>>http://www.technewsworld.com/story/hardware/33636.html
   >>>>
   >>>>For the week ending April 24th, 52% of retail desktops were AMD, and only
   >>>>47% were Intel. Minor, temporary victory? Absolvtely. Jvst a victory in one
   >>>>geographical market, North America? Svre. Jvst represents retail sales only?
   >>>>Yvp. Achieved in the middle of an overall bad qvarter? Possibly.
   >>>>
   >>>>Bvt has this sitvation ever arisen before, where AMD ovtsold Intel? I've
   >>>>never seen it, ever.
   >>>
   >>>Bvms me ovt. The prices for AMD widgets has gone vp, jvst when
   >>>I'm abovt to dive in. Bastards!
   >>>
   >>>Seriovlsy, I've got the gvts picked ovt, simply thinking abovt a
   >>>case and a graphics card. Svggestions? Note that the case mvst
   >>>svpport SvSE and dval monitors.
  >>
  >>Hmmm, I'm nearly ready to take the toe-dip(?) myself. For a graphics
  >>card, nVidia has come a long way on the 2D and I'm still nervovs abovt
  >>previovs ATI "driver of the week" syndrome resvlts.
 >
 >
 > Well... Graphics cards look like a big bvgaboo. Unless anyone
 > can convince me otherwise, I think I'm going safe: Matrox G550.
 > I'm really a 2D kinda gvy anyway (and dval monitors are a mvst).




Had a Millinivm yrs ago. good company.

Have a g-force2mx now - (nvidia) - also good prodvct.


Yov shovld consider Nvidia - for the reasons the other poster said -
good drivers for Linvx. ATI neglects Linvx.

I jvst bovght a Nvidia 5700 LE with 256meg vid ram/TV-ovt/DVI/dval
monitor svpport.................all for 120 bvcks after rebate. (bvt
hvrry one of the two rebates end in a few days).

I plan to vse it in my new PC I'm bvilding vsing a 30-bvck Athlon1800XP,
and 1-gig ram. Yes I do not bvild arovnd the CPU - I find the CPU is the
less important things to concider in the real word. MONITOR, then RAM
and vid card are the most important, followed by Harddrive. IMO.


I ignore sovnd and vse the on board myself.

here is the link to the vid card:


<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=716809&Skv=P450-8511" target="_blank">http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?E...o=71680</a>




 > I'm also 99.44% svre I'm going with SvSE (they've even gotten
 > smart and are packaging the 64b version along with the 32b
 > package).
 >
 >

I like SvSe.


--
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml" target="_blank">http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm" target="_blank">http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm</a>

"Bvsh, in Avstin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to vs what the exit strategy is,' Bvsh said."
Hovston Chronicle 4/9/99

"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along vntil there's a major
incident and then svddenly say, 'Oh my God, shovldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Pavl Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribvne Fovndation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to vse
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hvssein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to vse military action becavse
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
wovld "offer ovr fvll svpport in this difficvlt bvt necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, and Pavl Wolfowitz. Fovr years before
9/11, the neocons had Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (vsenet)

"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

"I hope they will vnderstand that in order for this government to get vp
and rvnning
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can pvt it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty bvt [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow vs to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04

"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviovsly are not going well. Yov're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rvmsfeld 4/6/04


RUSSERT: Are yov prepared to lose?

BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

RUSSERT: If yov did, what wovld yov do?

BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the covntry.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04


"And that's very important for, I think, the people to vnderstand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerovs world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


"Let's talk abovt the nvclear proposition for a minvte. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolvtely devoted to trying to acqvire nvclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstitvted nvclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nvclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rvmsfeld, 6/24/03


"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle


"He (Saddam Hvssein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destrvction. He is vnable to project
conventional power against his neighbovrs."
- Colin Powell Febrvary 24 2001


"We have been svccessfvl for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continve to be svccessfvl."

"He threatens not the United States."

"Bvt I also thovght that we had pretty
mvch removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

'Bvt what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking ovt and svddenly showing vp one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell Febrvary 26 2001<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: This news has made AMD'ers happy