The origin of RAID

"Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)" <toylet.toylet RemoveThis @gmail.com> writes:


>Was/Is it a mainframe technology in the old days? I meant
>when you trace the history....

You can read the original 1988 paper; it's linked from the Wikipedia
entry. It compared RAID arrays to IBM3380 [14 in. dia, 24 cu. ft. 6600
watts], Fuji Eagles, and similar 'pizza ovens..'

Note the marketdroids later changed the name from "inexpensive" to
"independent" to sound better...

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A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz RemoveThis @nrk.com
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 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

David Lesher wrote:

> Note the marketdroids later changed the name from "inexpensive" to
> "independent" to sound better...

And to be more realistic, for IBM disks
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k) <toylet.toylet.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

> Was/Is it a mainframe technology in the old days?

Nope. Mainframes never ever had anything even remotely resembling anything like inexpensive disks.

> I meant when you trace the history....
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

> It seems. howebver, that IBM had a patent on
> some RAID-like RAM redundancy technique in 1978,
> that was similar to RAID5. So the mainframe angle is
> back in

Most IBM mainframes are still serving mission-critical
stuff... Wonder when the PCs could replace them ...
esp. the banks.

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 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa DeleteThis @gmail.com> writes:

>Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k) <toylet.toylet DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>> Was/Is it a mainframe technology in the old days?

>Nope. Mainframes never ever had anything even remotely resembling anything like inexpensive disks.

Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got fired
for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]

DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster. I
recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to the
VAX, he was working on 'em so often.

When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester drives [aka
5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it got attention.

It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage
volume/redundancy of RAID.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz DeleteThis @nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

"David Lesher" <wb8foz.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote in message news:g26btd$r1$1@reader2.panix.com...
>
> Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
> Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got fired
> for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]
>
> DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster. I
> recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to the
> VAX, he was working on 'em so often.
>
> When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester drives [aka
> 5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it got attention.
>
First gen PC drives were junk with stepping motors.
Minicomputers were using 8" sealed drives with linear actuators.

> It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage
> volume/redundancy of RAID.
>
PC servers started to compete with minis around 1990, they had local-bus SCSI.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

Eric Gisin <gisin.DeleteThis@uniserve.com> wrote
> David Lesher <wb8foz.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote

>> Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
>> Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got
>> fired for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]

>> DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster. I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as
>> had a cot next to
>> the VAX, he was working on 'em so often.

Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.

>> When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester drives [aka 5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it
>> got attention.

> First gen PC drives were junk with stepping motors.
> Minicomputers were using 8" sealed drives with linear actuators.

And removable pack drives as well.

>> It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage volume/redundancy of RAID.

> PC servers started to compete with minis around 1990, they had local-bus SCSI.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

Rod Speed wrote in news:6aojsiF39bi7uU1@mid.individual.net
> Eric Gisin <gisin.TakeThisOut@uniserve.com> wrote
> > David Lesher <wb8foz.TakeThisOut@panix.com> wrote
>
> > > Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
> > > Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got
> > > fired for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]
>
> > > DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster.
> > > I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to
> > > the VAX, he was working on 'em so often.
>
> Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.

I think he meant the RA8x.

>
> > > When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester drives
> > > [aka 5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it got attention.
>
> > First gen PC drives were junk with stepping motors.

> > Minicomputers were using 8" sealed drives with linear actuators.

Don't know about that.
We did use 8" Fujitsus though, on Emulex RA8x emulating controllers.
IINM you could fit 4 of them in one chassis.

Before that I think we had CMDs but they didn't last very well.

And since minicomputers were PDP8I PDP8E/S PDP8A, PDP11-40/45
PDP11-04/34 PDP11-44 PDP11-24/84 PDP11-03/23/83, VAX-11 uVAX
VAX etc etc there was all kinds of stuff hanging off of them.
We even had Vermont drums hanging off PDP8 which were later
replaced by AMPEX MegaStores (Solid State) or RL01/02.

>
> And removable pack drives as well.

RL01/02, they indeed had linear actuators.

>
> > > It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage volume/redundancy of RAID.
>
> > PC servers started to compete with minis around 1990, they had local-bus SCSI.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

Squeeze <rubberduck.RemoveThis@duckies.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Eric Gisin <gisin.RemoveThis@uniserve.com> wrote
>>> David Lesher <wb8foz.RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote

>>>> Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
>>>> Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got
>>>> fired for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]

>>>> DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster.
>>>> I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next
>>>> to he VAX, he was working on 'em so often.

>> Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.

> I think he meant the RA8x.

Didnt have that problem with any of ours of those either.

>>>> When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester
>>>> drives [aka 5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it got attention.

>>> First gen PC drives were junk with stepping motors.

>>> Minicomputers were using 8" sealed drives with linear actuators.

> Don't know about that.
> We did use 8" Fujitsus though, on Emulex RA8x emulating controllers.
> IINM you could fit 4 of them in one chassis.

> Before that I think we had CMDs but they didn't last very well.

> And since minicomputers were PDP8I PDP8E/S PDP8A, PDP11-40/45
> PDP11-04/34 PDP11-44 PDP11-24/84 PDP11-03/23/83, VAX-11 uVAX
> VAX etc etc there was all kinds of stuff hanging off of them.
> We even had Vermont drums hanging off PDP8 which were later
> replaced by AMPEX MegaStores (Solid State) or RL01/02.

I had an RS09 off a PDP-9, head per track, and you had to get
a suitcase sized formatter shipped in to format the damned thing.

>> And removable pack drives as well.

> RL01/02,

Lot more than just those.

> they indeed had linear actuators.

I wasnt commenting on that bit.

>>>> It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage
>>>> volume/redundancy of RAID.

>>> PC servers started to compete with minis around 1990, they had local-bus SCSI.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

"Squeeze" <rubberduck DeleteThis @duckies.au> writes:

>> > > DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster.
>> > > I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to
>> > > the VAX, he was working on 'em so often.
>>
>> Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.

>I think he meant the RA8x.

Yep. The VAXi were fine; but the RA81's were lots of grief at least
initially.


>And since minicomputers were PDP8I PDP8E/S PDP8A, PDP11-40/45
>PDP11-04/34 PDP11-44 PDP11-24/84 PDP11-03/23/83, VAX-11 uVAX
>VAX etc etc there was all kinds of stuff hanging off of them.
>We even had Vermont drums hanging off PDP8 which were later
>replaced by AMPEX MegaStores (Solid State) or RL01/02.

>>
>> And removable pack drives as well.

>RL01/02, they indeed had linear actuators.


Had 30-40 PDP-11's; all had RL02's and most had RK05's, I think.

But RAID was, as I recall it and read about, an attempt to use
technology from newer sealed disks [8" or 5.25"], in mainframes.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz DeleteThis @nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

David Lesher wrote in news:g29abt$7o4$1@reader2.panix.com
> "Squeeze" <rubberduck.DeleteThis@duckies.au> writes:
>
> > > > > DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster.
> > > > > I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to
> > > > > the VAX, he was working on 'em so often.
> > >
> > > Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.
>
> > I think he meant the RA8x.
>
> Yep. The VAXi were fine; but the RA81's were lots of grief at least initially.
>
>
> > And since minicomputers were PDP8I PDP8E/S PDP8A, PDP11-40/45
> > PDP11-04/34 PDP11-44 PDP11-24/84 PDP11-03/23/83, VAX-11 uVAX
> > VAX etc etc there was all kinds of stuff hanging off of them.
> > We even had Vermont drums hanging off PDP8 which were later
> > replaced by AMPEX MegaStores (Solid State) or RL01/02.
>
> > >
> > > And removable pack drives as well.
>
> > RL01/02, they indeed had linear actuators.

> Had 30-40 PDP-11's; all had RL02's and most had RK05's, I think.

Our development PDP8E had an RK05 and ran OS8.
A 11/40 test/development machine had one too, initially, I think. It was
later accompanied by an 11/34 and both got RL01's, later replaced by RL02's.
Both 11's were single developer machines, the OS was RTL2 and you brought
your own disk pack with the OS on it.
Later they were replaced by an 11/44 with RA80 and 4 RL02, running RSX.

>
> But RAID was, as I recall it and read about, an attempt to use
> technology from newer sealed disks [8" or 5.25"], in mainframes.

It was probably a natural further development from the emulating
controllers, that emulated several smaller disks using a single big disk.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID 

Squeeze wrote in news:48472a6a$0$13872$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com
> Rod Speed wrote in news:6aojsiF39bi7uU1@mid.individual.net
> > Eric Gisin <gisin RemoveThis @uniserve.com> wrote
> > > David Lesher <wb8foz RemoveThis @panix.com> wrote
> >
> > > > Hence the interest in RAID. In that era, Big Iron used things like
> > > > Eagles; or more likely only Big Blue products. ["No one ever got
> > > > fired for buying IBM.." was not a fable, but a truth....]
> >
> > > > DEC's had, for example, RA81's, a 400 MB, 14 inch platter monster.
> > > > I recall the DEC Field Circus guy might as well as had a cot next to
> > > > the VAX, he was working on 'em so often.
> >
> > Didnt have that problem with any of ours. Or the 11s that preceeded those.
>
> I think he meant the RA8x.
>
> >
> > > > When those toy computers started showing up with Winchester drives
> > > > [aka 5.25" case] at a fraction of the price... it got attention.
> >
> > > First gen PC drives were junk with stepping motors.
>
> > > Minicomputers were using 8" sealed drives with linear actuators.
>
> Don't know about that.
> We did use 8" Fujitsus though, on Emulex RA8x emulating controllers.
> IINM you could fit 4 of them in one chassis.

> Before that I think we had CMDs but they didn't last very well.

That would likely have been CDC, not CMD.

>
> And since minicomputers were PDP8I PDP8E/S PDP8A, PDP11-40/45
> PDP11-04/34 PDP11-44 PDP11-24/84 PDP11-03/23/83, VAX-11 uVAX
> VAX etc etc there was all kinds of stuff hanging off of them.
> We even had Vermont drums hanging off PDP8 which were later
> replaced by AMPEX MegaStores (Solid State) or RL01/02.
>
> >
> > And removable pack drives as well.
>
> RL01/02, they indeed had linear actuators.
>
> >
> > > > It was far later when PeeCees had any need for the storage volume/redundancy of RAID.
> >
> > > PC servers started to compete with minis around 1990, they had local-bus SCSI.
 >> Stay informed about: The origin of RAID