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mikhail

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Since: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:54 pm
Post subject: tft
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware (more info?)

Can anyone reccomend a good 17 or 19 inch tft monitor for me from experience
for everyday apps and gaming.
Ive read lots of reviews and am getting a bit despondant by them all now.
From what I can make out ideally for games I need a 16-20ms response time of
which there are loads of 17inch but I would like the extra size of a 19inch
but these all seem around the 25ms range.
Is there really a great deal of difference between these times?

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DaveW

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Since: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 1371



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: tft [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yes. With 25ms response times you'll get bad ghosting during motion in
games.

--
DaveW



"mikhail" <mikew01.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vD3Wb.221$CV6.88@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
 > Can anyone reccomend a good 17 or 19 inch tft monitor for me from
experience
 > for everyday apps and gaming.
 > Ive read lots of reviews and am getting a bit despondant by them all now.
 > From what I can make out ideally for games I need a 16-20ms response time
of
 > which there are loads of 17inch but I would like the extra size of a
19inch
 > but these all seem around the 25ms range.
 > Is there really a great deal of difference between these times?
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Vanguard4

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Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 28



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: tft [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"DaveW" said in news:5heWb.273620$xy6.1386432@attbi_s02:
 > Yes. With 25ms response times you'll get bad ghosting during motion
 > in games.
 >
 >
 > "mikhail" <mikew01 DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:vD3Wb.221$CV6.88@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
  >> Can anyone reccomend a good 17 or 19 inch tft monitor for me from
  >> experience for everyday apps and gaming.
  >> Ive read lots of reviews and am getting a bit despondant by them all
  >> now. From what I can make out ideally for games I need a 16-20ms
  >> response time of which there are loads of 17inch but I would like
  >> the extra size of a 19inch but these all seem around the 25ms range.
  >> Is there really a great deal of difference between these times?


Also remember that a certain percentage of the pixels will be dead (each
manufacture differs as to what level qualifies a monitor as bad). Since
they are dead, you get a tiny dark speck there. If it's just one that is
dead with no other dead ones next to it, you'll see a pinpoint dot on the
screen that's not lit (often you won't see until you notice it and then
you'll see it all the time). You can't tell what the manufacturer deems as
too high a percentage of dead pixels until you try to exercise the warranty
to get rid of the specks.

Many of the TFT vendors are now lying about their refresh time. Instead of
measuring the refresh time from full off to full on, they instead measure
from some threshold less than full off and less than full on; i.e., they
measure only through a partial range of intensity so make their numbers look
better. Since the measure is over a shorter range in the change and the
non-linear and slower portion of the change curve is lopped off, the
measured time is shorter and the refresh rate looks better (see
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snipurl.com/4f4t" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/4f4t</a>). So what if the latest TFT LCDs can achieve 16ms
for refresh time. Even if it were a true value, that's only a 62 Hz refresh
rate. That's the LOW end of a CRT. You'll need to play some old or slow
games to not be disappointed with LCD. For applications, LCDs are nice.
For games, or anything else that moves fast across the screen, LCDs suck
(well, not as bad as they used to but I still wouldn't waste my money on LCD
when I can get a better CRT at the same price).

See tomshardware.com for some other articles on LCDs. Some info articles
are:

LCD Roundup V: 17" LCDs Panels Compared
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snipurl.com/4f4u" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/4f4u</a>

Review: 20" LCD S-IPS Panels
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snipurl.com/4f4v" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/4f4v</a>

Feed Forward Makes LCDs Faster
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snipurl.com/4f5g" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/4f5g</a>

Since you get a better buy with a CRT monitor, why do you need LCD? Are you
going to tote it around? Is space really cramped and, if so, what are you
using now? Why do you need to blow more money on a smaller monitor? Maybe
you just feel the need to be trendy, sort of like when all the yuppies felt
the "need" to drive a Beamer. For the same price of a 17-inch LCD, I can
buy a flat 21-inch CRT. The bigger the size the better, plus I can get
twice, or more, the refresh rate on a CRT than an LCD. What would be the
point of running 1600x1200 that gets squashed into a 17-inch panel? With a
larger monitor size, you can up the resolution without reducing the actual
size that your eyeballs have to focus on.



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XXXX

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Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 15



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:13 am
Post subject: Re: tft [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:11:59 -0600, "*Vanguard*"
<no-email.RemoveThis@no-spam.invalid> wrote:

 >See tomshardware.com for some other articles on LCDs. Some info articles
 >are:
 >
 >LCD Roundup V: 17" LCDs Panels Compared
 >http://snipurl.com/4f4u

I saw that one a few days ago. I didnt see that the last time I
checked Toms site about LCDs.

What they point out is theres a newer NEC and that the response times
dont tell the whole story. They picked a Hercules LCD thought it
claimed a 20 ms response time slower than the NEC and other 16 ms. But
they rated the NEC, Hercules and the other one I cant remember the
name of, well.

I ended up getting a CRT flatscreen for now.

I was toying with the idea of getting an LCD too but I think ill wait
until they get even cheaper and better.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Vanguard4

External


Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 28



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: tft [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"XXXX" said in news:galj2010rejfq8b9up4u7gru4jsfn36f3q@4ax.com:
 > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:11:59 -0600, "*Vanguard*"
 > <no-email.RemoveThis@no-spam.invalid> wrote:
 >
  >> See tomshardware.com for some other articles on LCDs. Some info
  >> articles are:
  >>
  >> LCD Roundup V: 17" LCDs Panels Compared
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snipurl.com/4f4u</font" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/4f4u</font</a>>
 >
 > I saw that one a few days ago. I didnt see that the last time I
 > checked Toms site about LCDs.
 >
 > What they point out is theres a newer NEC and that the response times
 > dont tell the whole story. They picked a Hercules LCD thought it
 > claimed a 20 ms response time slower than the NEC and other 16 ms. But
 > they rated the NEC, Hercules and the other one I cant remember the
 > name of, well.
 >
 > I ended up getting a CRT flatscreen for now.
 >
 > I was toying with the idea of getting an LCD too but I think ill wait
 > until they get even cheaper and better.

I've yet to find clear evidence, but I've been hearing that CRT manufacture
is expected to end in 3 to 4 years. Maybe LCDs are cheaper to make and have
less problems with disposal. Hopefully by then the LCDs will be down to a
*true* refresh time of 8ms (or under 6 ms if they continue using the
bastardized measurement).

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