Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode

OK, I also have 1 DVD writer and 1 DVD reader, so if I understand you
correctly, I should put one HD and one DVD on each channel???

thanks



"Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.20.21.10.40.749665@TAKEOUTverizon.net...
 > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:33:29 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:
 >
  > > I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB WD2500JB in
a
  > > AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running Windows XP Pro.
  > >
  > > I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between the
  > > drives.
  > >
  > > I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like it
takes
  > > a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8 minutes. Is this
  > > normal?
  > >
  > > Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I think I
was
  > > using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying DMA mode was not
  > > enabled on the Maxtor.
  > >
 > For best performance, make sure the 2 drives are not on the same channel
 > (cable). If they are on the same channel, this will be a major
 > slowdown, as each channel can only perform 1 IO fubction at a time. So
 > it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same channel.
 > Using 2 channels (cables), both will happen at the same time. Then make
 > sure you have them set to the fastest settings they support. I use hdparm
 > to check/set mine, but I run linux. Not sure where you set/check drive
 > modes in win.
 >
 > --
 > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"ZigZag Master" <zigSPAMMYzagmaster DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2m5h7rFjd86lU1@uni-berlin.de...
 > OK, I also have 1 DVD writer and 1 DVD reader, so if I understand you
 > correctly, I should put one HD and one DVD on each channel???
 >
 > thanks
 >
 >
 >
 > "Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
 > news:pan.2004.07.20.21.10.40.749665@TAKEOUTverizon.net...
  > > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:33:29 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:
  > >
   > > > I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB WD2500JB
in
 > a
   > > > AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running Windows XP Pro.
   > > >
   > > > I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between
the
   > > > drives.
   > > >
   > > > I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like it
 > takes
   > > > a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8 minutes. Is
this
   > > > normal?
   > > >
   > > > Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I think I
 > was
   > > > using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying DMA mode was
not
   > > > enabled on the Maxtor.
   > > >
  > > For best performance, make sure the 2 drives are not on the same channel
  > > (cable). If they are on the same channel, this will be a major
  > > slowdown, as each channel can only perform 1 IO fubction at a time. So
  > > it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same channel.
  > > Using 2 channels (cables), both will happen at the same time. Then make
  > > sure you have them set to the fastest settings they support. I use
hdparm
  > > to check/set mine, but I run linux. Not sure where you set/check drive
  > > modes in win.
  > >
  > > --
  > > Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</font" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</font</a>>
 >
In a Nutshell yea....
But what else you could do to increase speed is add a Raid or IDE card to
you system and have each drive run on its Own interface....
Say hard drives on Motherboard IDE channels 1 and 2 and then DVD drives on
add-on card for IDE 3-4.
I been thinkin about doin this myself....I have a Promise IDE 133 card
sitting here that I may throw my DvDPlayer and CD-RW on and split the hard
drives....but due to Case size so many cables would kill airflow for me.
OZoNE





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 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"ZigZag Master" <zigSPAMMYzagmaster DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2m5h7rFjd86lU1@uni-berlin.de...
 > OK, I also have 1 DVD writer and 1 DVD reader, so if I understand you
 > correctly, I should put one HD and one DVD on each channel???

Right.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"ZigZag Master" <zigSPAMMYzagmaster RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2m5ac4Fikd6dU1@uni-berlin.de...
 > I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB WD2500JB in a
 > AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running Windows XP Pro.
 >
 > I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between the
 > drives.
 >
 > I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like it
takes
 > a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8 minutes. Is this
 > normal?

That's in the ballpark.

 > Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I think I was
 > using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying DMA mode was not
 > enabled on the Maxtor.

Make SURE DMA mode is enabled for ALL ATA/IDE devices.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:30:40 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:

 > OK, I also have 1 DVD writer and 1 DVD reader, so if I understand you
 > correctly, I should put one HD and one DVD on each channel???
 >
If you've only got 2 channels and 4 devices, then you want the devices you
copy to/from most on seperate channels. but you also need to consider
from which drive you copy to the DVD wiriter most and keep them seperate
as well if possible. It depsnds on how you use the sytem as to how to best
configure the drives. Someone suggested another controller card, using 1
drive per channel. That would be the best solution if that's posssible.
They're cheap as dirt (I bought a dual channel with raid for about $10),
so cost shouldn't be an issue for most people.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm" target="_blank">http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message news:pan.2004.07.20.21.10.40.749665@TAKEOUTverizon.net
 > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:33:29 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:
 >
  > > I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB WD2500JB in a
  > > AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running Windows XP Pro.
  > >
  > > I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between the
  > > drives.
  > >
  > > I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like it takes
  > > a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8 minutes. Is this
  > > normal?
  > >
  > > Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I think I was
  > > using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying DMA mode was not
  > > enabled on the Maxtor.
  > >
 > For best performance, make sure the 2 drives are not on the same channel
 > (cable). If they are on the same channel, this will be a major
 > slowdown,

Nope.

 > as each channel can only perform 1 IO fubction at a time.

Like this would be any different for SCSI or any other bus.

 > So it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same channel.

So what. An IDE channel can support two drives.

 > Using 2 channels (cables), both will happen at the same time.

Nope.

 > Then make
 > sure you have them set to the fastest settings they support. I use hdparm
 > to check/set mine, but I run linux. Not sure where you set/check drive
 > modes in win.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh.RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:9iiLc.292216$Gx4.57095@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
 > "ZigZag Master" <zigSPAMMYzagmaster.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:2m5ac4Fikd6dU1@uni-berlin.de...
  > > I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB WD2500JB in a
  > > AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running Windows XP Pro.
  > >
  > > I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between the
  > > drives.
  > >
  > > I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like it takes
  > > a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8 minutes. Is this
  > > normal?
 >
 > That's in the ballpark.
 >
  > > Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I think I was
  > > using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying DMA mode was not
  > > enabled on the Maxtor.
 >
 > Make SURE DMA mode is enabled for ALL ATA/IDE devices.

Why? 22MB/s is definitely not PIO mode.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

Folkert Rienstra wrote:
 > "Wes Newell" <w.newell DeleteThis @TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
 > news:pan.2004.07.20.21.10.40.749665@TAKEOUTverizon.net
  >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:33:29 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:
  >>
   >>> I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB
   >>> WD2500JB in a AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running
   >>> Windows XP Pro.
   >>>
   >>> I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between
   >>> the drives.
   >>>
   >>> I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like
   >>> it takes a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8
   >>> minutes. Is this normal?
   >>>
   >>> Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I
   >>> think I was using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying
   >>> DMA mode was not enabled on the Maxtor.
  >>
  >> For best performance, make sure the 2 drives are not on the same
  >> channel (cable). If they are on the same channel, this will be a
  >> major
  >> slowdown,
 >
 > Nope.

Wrong. His drives will only be running at half their potential if they're
both on the same channel.

  >> as each channel can only perform 1 IO fubction at a time.
 >
 > Like this would be any different for SCSI or any other bus.

Actually, it is. An ATA bus (current SATA implementations or parallel) can
only have one active request at a time. A SCSI bus can have requests
outstanding, so there is very little wastage of bus bandwidth (though more
complex electronics are needed).

  >> So it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same
  >> channel.
 >
 > So what. An IDE channel can support two drives.

Yes, but not at the same time. Only one request can be active at any point
in time. So your drives will run at exactly half of their potential speed if
you only use one channel. This is the reason why doing any sort of IDE RAID
pretty much requires that you have one device per channel, otherwise you
take a big performance hit.

  >> Using 2 channels (cables), both will happen at the same time.
 >
 > Nope.

You're wrong, again. You should actually understand the topic before you
answer with such confidence

[...]

--
Michael Brown
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.emboss.co.nz" target="_blank">www.emboss.co.nz</a> : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Michael Brown" <see.DeleteThis@signature.below> wrote in message
news:%AtLc.3097$N77.226298@news.xtra.co.nz...
 > Folkert Rienstra wrote:
 >
   > >> So it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same
   > >> channel.
  > >
  > > So what. An IDE channel can support two drives.
 >
 > Yes, but not at the same time. Only one request can be active at any point
 > in time. So your drives will run at exactly half of their potential speed if
 > you only use one channel. This is the reason why doing any sort of IDE RAID
 > pretty much requires that you have one device per channel, otherwise you
 > take a big performance hit.
 >
It doesn't matter if you are doing sequential copies. IDE drives implement
read ahead and write behind, so the host is transfering to/from the cache and
both drives read and write at the same time. Similar argument for ROM to
writer on the same channel. The speed of the channel is enough for two
devices.

   > >> Using 2 channels (cables), both will happen at the same time.
  > >
  > > Nope.
 >
 > You're wrong, again. You should actually understand the topic before you
 > answer with such confidence
 >
You are the one who doesn't understand. You can easily do CD duplication with
both drives on one UDMA-33 channel. This was what the prior poster asked.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Michael Brown" <see.TakeThisOut@signature.below> wrote in message
news:%AtLc.3097$N77.226298@news.xtra.co.nz...
 > Folkert Rienstra wrote:
  > > "Wes Newell" <w.newell.TakeThisOut@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
  > > news:pan.2004.07.20.21.10.40.749665@TAKEOUTverizon.net
   > >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:33:29 -0400, ZigZag Master wrote:
   > >>
   > >>> I have a Maxtor 200GB (6Y200P0) and a Western Digital 250GB
   > >>> WD2500JB in a AMD 2500 / Abit NF7-S - 1GB RAM. I am running
   > >>> Windows XP Pro.
   > >>>
   > >>> I was wondering how long it should take to copy large files between
   > >>> the drives.
   > >>>
   > >>> I have some TV captures that are about 8-12GB. It just seems like
   > >>> it takes a long time to copy from drive to drive....about 6-8
   > >>> minutes. Is this normal?
   > >>>
   > >>> Also, do I have to do anything special to turn on DMA mode? I
   > >>> think I was using Pinnacle Studio, and it popped up a window saying
   > >>> DMA mode was not enabled on the Maxtor.
   > >>
   > >> For best performance, make sure the 2 drives are not on the same
   > >> channel (cable). If they are on the same channel, this will be a
   > >> major
   > >> slowdown,
  > >
  > > Nope.
 >
 > Wrong. His drives will only be running at half their potential if they're
 > both on the same channel.

You are wrong.

   > >> as each channel can only perform 1 IO fubction at a time.
  > >
  > > Like this would be any different for SCSI or any other bus.
 >
 > Actually, it is. An ATA bus (current SATA implementations or parallel) can
 > only have one active request at a time.

So, drives do read ahead and write behind caching...hmm, I wonder why?

 > A SCSI bus can have requests
 > outstanding, so there is very little wastage of bus bandwidth (though more
 > complex electronics are needed).
 >
   > >> So it will have to read to ram, then write back out to the same
   > >> channel.
  > >
  > > So what. An IDE channel can support two drives.
 >
 > Yes, but not at the same time.

Wrong.

 > Only one request can be active at any point
 > in time.

Just like SCSI. Define "active".

 >So your drives will run at exactly half of their potential speed if

Wrong.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

Defrag both drives, pick a huge file, restart the os, and copy the file
between the drives while timing it, then delete the copy. Do this a few
times. Then put one drive on the other channel and do it again. You'll then
know if it makes a difference on your machine.

I suspect that since (most?) drives can't read or write at anywhere near the
rate of the modern 133 interface, it doesn't matter at all.

But I would love to read your results.

I have 2 drives on the same channel that max out at 40 mb/s and down to 25
mb/s on the insides of the platters. They can copy a large file between them
at 30 mb/s.


--
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 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Ed Light" <nobody RemoveThis @nobody.there> wrote

 > I have 2 drives on the same channel that max out at 40 mb/s and down to 25
 > mb/s on the insides of the platters. They can copy a large file between
them
 > at 30 mb/s.

That's in Win XP Home.

--
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 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode 

"Ed Light" <nobody RemoveThis @nobody.there> wrote in message
news:7VALc.43469$ve2.12065@okepread05...
 > I have 2 drives on the same channel that max out at 40 mb/s and down to 25
 > mb/s on the insides of the platters. They can copy a large file between
them
 > at 30 mb/s.

That's a typical result for two HDs on the same cable doing big file
sequential I/O. There is no interference.

However if both drives were doing intense small record random I/O then there
would be significant interference.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about transfer speeds between HDs, and DMA mode