upgrade video card on old machine...advise?

MCGrandpa,

My doc says the motherbd AGP slot is AGP66/133 mhz 3.3v device support.
Is the 3.3v the rating you refer to (1.5v signaling)?
If so - will it support it? I dont know if the number being higher is
a bad thing or good thing?

THX!
Dom
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

"Dom" <dgcam55 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110813888.329155.213110@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
 > I have an Athlon 700 Mhz machine with AGP 2x 32 MB card.
 > The machine has 256 MB of RAM, and I am running Windows XP - SP2.
 > The machine occassionally will have problems running a DVD and/or
 > editting photos (lack of available memory).
 > I dont play games (except some old ones I have from time to
 > time...which run fine).
 >
 > I purchased a NVIDIA FX5200 128 MB/AGP 8x video card for $40 new.
 > I haven't received it yet.
 > I am thinking compared to what I have now, this should help elieviate
 > my problems until I decide to drop some serious money on a new PC
 > (sometime in 2006).
 >
 > Based on my use for this card, and the minimal cost, am I correct in
 > believing that this should help with my problems?
 >
 > (I dont have non-essential background pgms running...the machine is
 > pretty clean that way).
 >
 > Thanks for any advise/comments!
 > DGC

The only problem I see is that the FX5200 is a AGP 4x/8x card only.
Better check to see if your motherboard can do the 1.5v signalling. If
the card won't fit easily into the slot, don't try to force it. That
means it's not meant to work in that older slot.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

I'm not optimistic that an AGP 3.0 card like the 5200 will be
back-compatible with your system. Be sure to check the notches in the card
against the AGP slot to see whether it would fit physically. Don't force it.

This link may be confusing, but it may give you some idea of what you're
facing:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html" target="_blank">http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html</a>

If you have an original AGP 1.0 slot (supports 1X and 2X), you may need a
card no newer than a Geforce 4. (I used a GF4 4200 in an AGP 1.0 mainboard,
successfully.) Unfortunately, they may be hard to find new.

It seems like a 32 MB TNT2 card ought to be adequate for viewing DVDs and
photo editing. (More video memory may be required for 3D gaming, which you
say you don't want.) For example: a 1600X1200 pixel image in 32 bit color
would require less than 8 MB of memory to display. 32 MB of video memory
ought to support several layers of buffering on that, which means that it
ought to be adequate for all 2D functions. (I know this is a naive way of
looking at it, but it ought to be basically correct.)

I didn't use it much for watching DVDs, but my old desktop machine at work
had a 32 MB TNT2 graphics card, and it played DVDs smoothly. (It was a 1 GHz
PIII machine, with 512 MB of RAM. It was a fairly nice machine when it was
new, in the fall of 2001.)

I suspect that you need more main RAM. 256 MB isn't a lot for XP. One
symptom of that would be excessive hard disk activity, indicating the use of
virtual memory. That would give jerky DVD playback, and delays in editing
still images.

HTH.

Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.

"Dom" <dgcam55 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110849627.755764.158240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 > MCGrandpa,
 >
 > My doc says the motherbd AGP slot is AGP66/133 mhz 3.3v device support.
 > Is the 3.3v the rating you refer to (1.5v signaling)?
 > If so - will it support it? I dont know if the number being higher is
 > a bad thing or good thing?
 >
 > THX!
 > Dom
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

"Dom" <dgcam55 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110849627.755764.158240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
 > MCGrandpa,
 >
 > My doc says the motherbd AGP slot is AGP66/133 mhz 3.3v device
 > support. Is the 3.3v the rating you refer to (1.5v signaling)?
 > If so - will it support it? I dont know if the number being higher is
 > a bad thing or good thing?
 >
 > THX!
 > Dom

No, the FX5900 I have is 1.5v only, and if you were able to put it in
the 3.3v slot and turn the power on, you'd burn the card or/and mobo.
There is usually a little warning note about this right on top of
everything when you open the cards box. I recall reading however, that
SOME manufacturers built some of the lower end cards to support both
3.3v and 1.5v. But this is something you really have to be careful of.
So far, what you *know* is that the motherboards AGP slot is 3.3v only.
McG.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

Funny - I went to the XFX website and there is no specific information
on this.
I did a google on v1 (2x) and v2 (4x) and learned that only "universal"
cards will be backward compatible.
I learned that most RADEONs are universal type cards.

I didn't see anywhere about the FX cards being backwards compatible.
If this information is actually available somewhere online, I would
like to see it.

Any ideas/comments?
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

McGrandpa wrote:

 > The only problem I see is that the FX5200 is a AGP 4x/8x card only.
 > Better check to see if your motherboard can do the 1.5v signalling. If
 > the card won't fit easily into the slot, don't try to force it. That means
 > it's not meant to work in that older slot.

All GeforceFX cards do both 3.3V and 1.5V...

Benjamin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

Bob Knowlden wrote:

 > I'm not optimistic that an AGP 3.0 card like the 5200 will be
 > back-compatible with your system.

That's no problem (I have an FX5200 in an old computer w. AGP1x slot for
myself, and I know of several FX5600, FX5700 and two FX5900 running in AGP2x
boards with 3.3V). All Nvidia GeforceFX GPUs do both 3.3V and 1.5V
signalling. Not always the card manufacturers also list AGP1x/2x or 3.3V,
and some (very few!) cards also don't have the AGP1x/2x coding on the AGP
connector, but they definitely do support 3.3V...

The problem is _not_ putting a new card in an old mobo, the real problem
indeed is that some older cards (pre-Radeon/pre-Geforce aera and some Matrox
G400's) are coded for AGP4x but don't support the 1.5V signalling level of
modern mainboards...

Benjamin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

Dom wrote:

 > Funny - I went to the XFX website and there is no specific information
 > on this.

As I said, some manufacturer simply don't mention it. They only mention that
the card does AGP8x because that attracts customers. Most manufacturers
simply don't care about people with old hardware...

 > I did a google on v1 (2x) and v2 (4x) and learned that only
 > "universal" cards will be backward compatible.

AGP 2.0 means 3.3V/1.5V capable. The GeforceFX series is AGP 2.0...

 > I learned that most RADEONs are universal type cards.
 >
 > I didn't see anywhere about the FX cards being backwards compatible.
 > If this information is actually available somewhere online, I would
 > like to see it.
 >
 > Any ideas/comments?

Well, for example Asus mentions it:

From the little Asus FX5200...
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=269&l1=2&l2=7&l3=9" target="_blank">http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=269&l1=2&l2=7&l3=9</a>
.... to the FX5900Ultra:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=259&l1=2&l2=7&l3=5" target="_blank">http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=259&l1=2&l2=7&l3=5</a>

And as I already wrote I myself run a FX5200 (ABit Siluro FX5200DT 128MB) in
an old HP Kayak Dual PII with i440LX chipset and AGP1x, and I have several
friends/relatives with different FX cards in AGP2x computers...

Benjamin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

thats great news.
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.
It looks like I am on the right track with this upgrade afterall.

Dom
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
 > Dom wrote:
 >
 >
  >>Funny - I went to the XFX website and there is no specific information
  >>on this.
 >
 >
 > As I said, some manufacturer simply don't mention it. They only mention that
 > the card does AGP8x because that attracts customers. Most manufacturers
 > simply don't care about people with old hardware...
 >
 >
  >>I did a google on v1 (2x) and v2 (4x) and learned that only
  >>"universal" cards will be backward compatible.
 >
 >
 > AGP 2.0 means 3.3V/1.5V capable. The GeforceFX series is AGP 2.0...
 >
 >
  >>I learned that most RADEONs are universal type cards.
  >>
  >>I didn't see anywhere about the FX cards being backwards compatible.
  >>If this information is actually available somewhere online, I would
  >>like to see it.
  >>
  >>Any ideas/comments?
 >
 >
 > Well, for example Asus mentions it:
 >
 > From the little Asus FX5200...
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=269&l1=2&l2=7&l3=9</font" target="_blank">http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=269&l1=2&l2=7&l3=9</font</a>>
 > ... to the FX5900Ultra:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=259&l1=2&l2=7&l3=5</font" target="_blank">http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=259&l1=2&l2=7&l3=5</font</a>>
 >
 > And as I already wrote I myself run a FX5200 (ABit Siluro FX5200DT 128MB) in
 > an old HP Kayak Dual PII with i440LX chipset and AGP1x, and I have several
 > friends/relatives with different FX cards in AGP2x computers...
 >
 > Benjamin
 >
 >

I've got a GFX5600 running in a 440LX board also (my ftp server). It's
only a AGP 1.0 spec motherboard, but the FX functions perfectly fine.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert.RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:39ob5fF6319q5U1@individual.net
 > Bob Knowlden wrote:
 >
  >> I'm not optimistic that an AGP 3.0 card like the 5200 will be
  >> back-compatible with your system.
 >
 > That's no problem (I have an FX5200 in an old computer w. AGP1x slot
 > for myself, and I know of several FX5600, FX5700 and two FX5900
 > running in AGP2x boards with 3.3V). All Nvidia GeforceFX GPUs do both
 > 3.3V and 1.5V signalling. Not always the card manufacturers also list
 > AGP1x/2x or 3.3V, and some (very few!) cards also don't have the
 > AGP1x/2x coding on the AGP connector, but they definitely do support
 > 3.3V...
 > The problem is _not_ putting a new card in an old mobo, the real
 > problem indeed is that some older cards (pre-Radeon/pre-Geforce aera
 > and some Matrox G400's) are coded for AGP4x but don't support the
 > 1.5V signalling level of modern mainboards...
 >
 > Benjamin

That's good to know. SO...even a 6800 would work in an ABit BE6-II 1.2
(BX440) mobo? Cool. That means when I put the new fan on this old
FX5900-128 it will have a good home waiting for it
McG.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

Impressive. Thanks for the correction.

I still doubt that the original poster's life will improve with the addition
of an FX5200 card, even if it runs perfectly. However, even if there's some
disappointment, $40 (US) can't be too much of a waste, even if the card has
a 64 bit memory interface.

"Benjamin Gawert" <bgawert.RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:39ob5fF6319q5U1@individual.net...
 > Bob Knowlden wrote:
 >
  >> I'm not optimistic that an AGP 3.0 card like the 5200 will be
  >> back-compatible with your system.
 >
 > That's no problem (I have an FX5200 in an old computer w. AGP1x slot for
 > myself, and I know of several FX5600, FX5700 and two FX5900 running in
 > AGP2x boards with 3.3V). All Nvidia GeforceFX GPUs do both 3.3V and 1.5V
 > signalling. Not always the card manufacturers also list AGP1x/2x or 3.3V,
 > and some (very few!) cards also don't have the AGP1x/2x coding on the AGP
 > connector, but they definitely do support 3.3V...
 >
 > The problem is _not_ putting a new card in an old mobo, the real problem
 > indeed is that some older cards (pre-Radeon/pre-Geforce aera and some
 > Matrox G400's) are coded for AGP4x but don't support the 1.5V signalling
 > level of modern mainboards...
 >
 > Benjamin
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise? 

McGrandpa wrote:
 > "Dom" <dgcam55 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:1110849627.755764.158240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
 >
  >>MCGrandpa,
  >>
  >>My doc says the motherbd AGP slot is AGP66/133 mhz 3.3v device
  >>support. Is the 3.3v the rating you refer to (1.5v signaling)?
  >>If so - will it support it? I dont know if the number being higher is
  >>a bad thing or good thing?
  >>
  >>THX!
  >>Dom
 >
 >
 > No, the FX5900 I have is 1.5v only, and if you were able to put it in
 > the 3.3v slot and turn the power on, you'd burn the card or/and mobo.
 > There is usually a little warning note about this right on top of
 > everything when you open the cards box. I recall reading however, that
 > SOME manufacturers built some of the lower end cards to support both
 > 3.3v and 1.5v. But this is something you really have to be careful of.
 > So far, what you *know* is that the motherboards AGP slot is 3.3v only.
 > McG.
 >
 >

As far as I know, most NVIDIA AGP cards are dual 3.3V/1.5V compatible.
According to the AGP spec, such cards are supposed to have two notches
in the contact area of the card edge, while cards that support only one
voltage will have a notch in one position or the other. The idea is that
the AGP slot on the motherboard can have protrusions in it which will
block incompatible AGP cards from being physically inserted into the
slot. The pictures I've seen of FX5900 cards seem to have both notches
on them. Some 6600GT cards appear to have only the 1.5V notch, however.

Apparently some old 3.3V-only cards were made which had the wrong
notches on them, and which can be inserted into a motherboard which
supports only 1.5V. This apparently can destroy the chipset on the
motherboard. I've not heard of any cards that supported only 1.5V and
which weren't notched properly, however.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr DeleteThis @nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.roberthancock.com/" target="_blank">http://www.roberthancock.com/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: upgrade video card on old machine...advise?