would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s..

On Feb 20, 9:57 pm, Paul <nos....DeleteThis@needed.com> wrote:
> ShadowTek wrote:
> >> Is this likely the source of the problem? Or is it the fact it's a
> >> different drive or is IDE instead of SATA masking/bypassing the still
> >> existing root problem?
>
> > Maybe your SATA host controller is flaky? Or maybe the SATA port that
> > you were using is bad?
>
> > How many SATA ports do you have? Try a different one and see what
> > happens.
>
> > If that doesn't work and your IDE drive continues to work well, then
> > try a different SATA hard drive and see what happens.
>
> The motherboard is a M61P-S3.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
>
> The chipset is a single chip, combining Northbridge and Southbridge functions.
> Geforce 6100/430.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-034-04.jpg
>
> It could be, that the SATA interface only throws errors, when the
> chip temp hits 74C. Thus, testing in Linux, when not gaming, is
> no longer stressing the chipset chip quite the same way.
>
> By comparison, an IDE interface would be much more tolerant of
> temperature.
>
> The chipset runs the SATA interface at 1.5Gbit/sec or 3.0Gbit/sec,
> and the I/O pad on the chip probably sees some performance degradation
> when operated at high temperature. It may take disk testing, while
> a game is running, to detect a problem. If there is a way to do
> something like that...
>
> Paul

Hmm, good information. If the ice storm lets up, I'll see if I can go
get a fan for the North/Southbridge sink.
In any case, I ran Speedfan under the game for a couple of hours
yesterday (with the other HD it doesn't matter how long it runs...it
could be 10 minutes...it'll BSOD if I Alt+Tab out of it for sure. It
takes longer to BSOD in game if I just let it run, though,) and the
Temp2 (which I believe is the 'bridge chip) never got higher than 62C.
It only got to 74C at its highest during the Prime95 test.

I'm going to pick up a new SATA cable when I get the fan. I'm looking
for a cheap SATA drive just to swap and test with, but even used
SATA's aren't cheap. :/ (I have like 10 spare IDE's lying around. I
wonder if I can trade them in for one SATA LOL)

As soon as I can get the parts, I'll try the new cable, different SATA
port, fanned chip, and hopefully new drive, and will report back on
what happens.
Thanks for all the feedback!
-Liam
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

On Feb 21, 8:21 am, mechphi... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:57 pm, Paul <nos... RemoveThis @needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ShadowTek wrote:
> > >> Is this likely the source of the problem? Or is it the fact it's a
> > >> different drive or is IDE instead of SATA masking/bypassing the still
> > >> existing root problem?
>
> > > Maybe your SATA host controller is flaky? Or maybe the SATA port that
> > > you were using is bad?
>
> > > How many SATA ports do you have? Try a different one and see what
> > > happens.
>
> > > If that doesn't work and your IDE drive continues to work well, then
> > > try a different SATA hard drive and see what happens.
>
> > The motherboard is a M61P-S3.
>
> >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
>
> > The chipset is a single chip, combining Northbridge and Southbridge functions.
> > Geforce 6100/430.
>
> >http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-034-04.jpg
>
> > It could be, that the SATA interface only throws errors, when the
> > chip temp hits 74C. Thus, testing in Linux, when not gaming, is
> > no longer stressing the chipset chip quite the same way.
>
> > By comparison, an IDE interface would be much more tolerant of
> > temperature.
>
> > The chipset runs the SATA interface at 1.5Gbit/sec or 3.0Gbit/sec,
> > and the I/O pad on the chip probably sees some performance degradation
> > when operated at high temperature. It may take disk testing, while
> > a game is running, to detect a problem. If there is a way to do
> > something like that...
>
> > Paul
>
> Hmm, good information. If the ice storm lets up, I'll see if I can go
> get a fan for the North/Southbridge sink.
> In any case, I ran Speedfan under the game for a couple of hours
> yesterday (with the other HD it doesn't matter how long it runs...it
> could be 10 minutes...it'll BSOD if I Alt+Tab out of it for sure. It
> takes longer to BSOD in game if I just let it run, though,) and the
> Temp2 (which I believe is the 'bridge chip) never got higher than 62C.
> It only got to 74C at its highest during the Prime95 test.
>
> I'm going to pick up a new SATA cable when I get the fan. I'm looking
> for a cheap SATA drive just to swap and test with, but even used
> SATA's aren't cheap. :/ (I have like 10 spare IDE's lying around. I
> wonder if I can trade them in for one SATA LOL)
>
> As soon as I can get the parts, I'll try the new cable, different SATA
> port, fanned chip, and hopefully new drive, and will report back on
> what happens.
> Thanks for all the feedback!
> -Liam

Here's an odd new development:
Using a different SATA cable and a different port on the mobo, I can't
get the game to BSOD. As I've said, all I have to do, regardless of
'bridge temperature, is Alt+Tab out of the game and it BSOD. I can't
get it to do that.
But here's the rub: It could be the cable or port...or, the fact that
I didn't allow the system to install the Windows HDMI Sound system
drivers, or whatever it's called.

Every time I installed the 2600XT card, along with video drivers, it
wants to install some Microsoft WMDI, er, HDMI, or, whatever (since I
didn't install them, I can't look and see what it's called) sound
drivers. It usually gives me some problems--sound won't work, have to
reinstall, have to uninstall items in Device Manager, refresh,
reinstall drivers, etc.
This time I said screw it, I'm not going to mess with it, I'm just
here to test the card and and SATA.

But now that it seems to be working, although without sound, I'm
wondering now if the Microsoft HDI sound that seems to accompany the
video card, has something to do with all this.

God I hate computers.
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

On Feb 21, 9:38 am, mechphi... DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 21, 8:21 am, mechphi... DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 9:57 pm, Paul <nos... DeleteThis @needed.com> wrote:
>
> > > ShadowTek wrote:
> > > >> Is this likely the source of the problem? Or is it the fact it's a
> > > >> different drive or is IDE instead of SATA masking/bypassing the still
> > > >> existing root problem?
>
> > > > Maybe your SATA host controller is flaky? Or maybe the SATA port that
> > > > you were using is bad?
>
> > > > How many SATA ports do you have? Try a different one and see what
> > > > happens.
>
> > > > If that doesn't work and your IDE drive continues to work well, then
> > > > try a different SATA hard drive and see what happens.
>
> > > The motherboard is a M61P-S3.
>
> > >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034
>
> > > The chipset is a single chip, combining Northbridge and Southbridge functions.
> > > Geforce 6100/430.
>
> > >http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-128-034-04.jpg
>
> > > It could be, that the SATA interface only throws errors, when the
> > > chip temp hits 74C. Thus, testing in Linux, when not gaming, is
> > > no longer stressing the chipset chip quite the same way.
>
> > > By comparison, an IDE interface would be much more tolerant of
> > > temperature.
>
> > > The chipset runs the SATA interface at 1.5Gbit/sec or 3.0Gbit/sec,
> > > and the I/O pad on the chip probably sees some performance degradation
> > > when operated at high temperature. It may take disk testing, while
> > > a game is running, to detect a problem. If there is a way to do
> > > something like that...
>
> > > Paul
>
> > Hmm, good information. If the ice storm lets up, I'll see if I can go
> > get a fan for the North/Southbridge sink.
> > In any case, I ran Speedfan under the game for a couple of hours
> > yesterday (with the other HD it doesn't matter how long it runs...it
> > could be 10 minutes...it'll BSOD if I Alt+Tab out of it for sure. It
> > takes longer to BSOD in game if I just let it run, though,) and the
> > Temp2 (which I believe is the 'bridge chip) never got higher than 62C.
> > It only got to 74C at its highest during the Prime95 test.
>
> > I'm going to pick up a new SATA cable when I get the fan. I'm looking
> > for a cheap SATA drive just to swap and test with, but even used
> > SATA's aren't cheap. :/ (I have like 10 spare IDE's lying around. I
> > wonder if I can trade them in for one SATA LOL)
>
> > As soon as I can get the parts, I'll try the new cable, different SATA
> > port, fanned chip, and hopefully new drive, and will report back on
> > what happens.
> > Thanks for all the feedback!
> > -Liam
>
> Here's an odd new development:
> Using a different SATA cable and a different port on the mobo, I can't
> get the game to BSOD. As I've said, all I have to do, regardless of
> 'bridge temperature, is Alt+Tab out of the game and it BSOD. I can't
> get it to do that.
> But here's the rub: It could be the cable or port...or, the fact that
> I didn't allow the system to install the Windows HDMI Sound system
> drivers, or whatever it's called.
>
> Every time I installed the 2600XT card, along with video drivers, it
> wants to install some Microsoft WMDI, er, HDMI, or, whatever (since I
> didn't install them, I can't look and see what it's called) sound
> drivers. It usually gives me some problems--sound won't work, have to
> reinstall, have to uninstall items in Device Manager, refresh,
> reinstall drivers, etc.
> This time I said screw it, I'm not going to mess with it, I'm just
> here to test the card and and SATA.
>
> But now that it seems to be working, although without sound, I'm
> wondering now if the Microsoft HDI sound that seems to accompany the
> video card, has something to do with all this.
>
> God I hate computers.

(OK, Device Manager has the device name even though I won't let it
install drivers:
Microsoft WINMM WDM Audio Compatibility Driver, and an unknown sound
device.
Unfortunately sound worked fine before I put in the ATI video card,
using the Realtek High Definition Audio. Unfortunately, with the video
card in and the drivers for the new sound devices not installed, the
Sound Control Panel options are grayed out...so I can't force it to
use Realtek again.)
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

> Microsoft WINMM WDM Audio Compatibility Driver, and an unknown sound
> device.
> Unfortunately sound worked fine before I put in the ATI video card,
> using the Realtek High Definition Audio. Unfortunately, with the video
> card in and the drivers for the new sound devices not installed, the
> Sound Control Panel options are grayed out...so I can't force it to
> use Realtek again.)

You mean those onboard Relteks? You could try to find a driver for it.

I would think that getting a dedicated sound card would be a better
idea though, since you would also be adding more hardware resources to
your PC.
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

On Feb 21, 7:04 pm, ShadowTek <psistormyam... RemoveThis @cs.com> wrote:
> > Microsoft WINMM WDM Audio Compatibility Driver, and an unknown sound
> > device.
> > Unfortunately sound worked fine before I put in the ATI video card,
> > using the Realtek High Definition Audio. Unfortunately, with the video
> > card in and the drivers for the new sound devices not installed, the
> > Sound Control Panel options are grayed out...so I can't force it to
> > use Realtek again.)
>
> You mean those onboard Relteks? You could try to find a driver for it.
>
> I would think that getting a dedicated sound card would be a better
> idea though, since you would also be adding more hardware resources to
> your PC.

Yeah, I've used the driver that came with the board, the driver
Windows Update provides, and the updated driver from Gigabyte's Web
site.
Yeah, dedicated sound card would be better--but I don't want to advise
him to buy something more until I can figure out exactly what is wrong
with the system for fear of just throwing money away. He's not exactly
rich, and he's a friend/co-worker, not a customer.

OK, update:
I got the Realtek sound to work fine and prevented the "Audio Device
on High Definition Audio Bus" from installing when I inserted the ATI
video card.
It's running on the same SATA hard drive, but a different cable in a
different SATA port on the board.
BSOD.

So, I got it to work fine and couldn't get it to crash when it was
running with no sound at all.
Can that still be an issue? Could the onboard sound cause a BSOD
blaming win32k.sys and 0x050F? (Which has seemingly no consensus on
the Googletubes what that means, but is usually blamed on RAM or video
drivers.)

I guess I still need to try to find a used, cheap SATA drive to try it
on, and eliminate the HD as the problem.
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

On Feb 22, 10:55 am, yogi <y... RemoveThis @yellowstone.np> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:35:49 -0800 (PST), mechphi... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> >On Feb 21, 7:04 pm, ShadowTek <psistormyam... RemoveThis @cs.com> wrote:
> >> > Microsoft WINMM WDM Audio Compatibility Driver, and an unknown sound
> >> > device.
> >> > Unfortunately sound worked fine before I put in the ATI video card,
> >> > using the Realtek High Definition Audio. Unfortunately, with the video
> >> > card in and the drivers for the new sound devices not installed, the
> >> > Sound Control Panel options are grayed out...so I can't force it to
> >> > use Realtek again.)
>
> >> You mean those onboard Relteks? You could try to find a driver for it.
>
> >> I would think that getting a dedicated sound card would be a better
> >> idea though, since you would also be adding more hardware resources to
> >> your PC.
>
> >Yeah, I've used the driver that came with the board, the driver
> >Windows Update provides, and the updated driver from Gigabyte's Web
> >site.
> >Yeah, dedicated sound card would be better--but I don't want to advise
> >him to buy something more until I can figure out exactly what is wrong
> >with the system for fear of just throwing money away. He's not exactly
> >rich, and he's a friend/co-worker, not a customer.
>
> >OK, update:
> >I got the Realtek sound to work fine and prevented the "Audio Device
> >on High Definition Audio Bus" from installing when I inserted the ATI
> >video card.
> >It's running on the same SATA hard drive, but a different cable in a
> >different SATA port on the board.
> >BSOD.
>
> >So, I got it to work fine and couldn't get it to crash when it was
> >running with no sound at all.
> >Can that still be an issue? Could the onboard sound cause a BSOD
> >blaming win32k.sys and 0x050F? (Which has seemingly no consensus on
> >the Googletubes what that means, but is usually blamed on RAM or video
> >drivers.)
>
> >I guess I still need to try to find a used, cheap SATA drive to try it
> >on, and eliminate the HD as the problem.
>
> I found a mention to the HEX Code at the address below.http://www.pegasus-afs.com/Support/WebHelp/hex_error_code_directory/h...
>
> I don't have an understanding of the meaning but it might mean
> something to someone here, It looks like a program is looking for some
> kind of instruction in the HDD Cache by the sector remark, but then I
> am guessing.
>
> 0x050f
> A request was made to locate a sector in the HCM, but it was not
> present in the cache. This is an internal error code
>
> Cheers

Eep, sorry, I mistyped the HEX. No "F".
(The bugcheck for the BSOD is at the bottom of this message.)
Everything I've found about the BSOD message says driver, ...or
RAM.... or some unknown hardware issue. =/

Hmm, it doesn't crash when it's running with the same Realtek sound
and drivers on the IDE drive... I'm thinking that may still mean it's
the SATA drive itself. That's the only thing, aside from the mobo and
CPU, that remains.
But then, why does it ONLY crash when using the ATI video card on the
SATA drive, and never crashes when using the onboard NVidia chip on
the SATA?
It never crashes when using the ATI card on the IDE drive either.

Makes no sense to me.
And no one around here sells SATA drive cheaper than $50 and I just
need a testing drive.

BUGCHECK:

Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.8.0004.0 X86
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Loading Dump File [c:\windows\minidump\Mini011708-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available

Symbol search path is: srv*c:\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/
download/symbols
Executable search path is: c:\windows\i386
Windows XP Kernel Version 2600 (Service Pack 2) MP (2 procs) Free x86
compatible
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254
Kernel base = 0x804d7000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x8055c700
Debug session time: Thu Jan 17 17:46:36.187 2008 (GMT-6)
System Uptime: 0 days 0:30:08.882
Loading Kernel Symbols
................................................................................................................................
Loading User Symbols
Loading unloaded module list
...........
*******************************************************************************
*
*
* Bugcheck
Analysis *
*
*
*******************************************************************************

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck 10000050, {e1a7e304, 0, bf89412b, 1}

Could not read faulting driver name

Probably caused by : win32k.sys ( win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo
+b1 )

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

0: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
*
*
* Bugcheck
Analysis *
*
*
*******************************************************************************

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50)
Invalid system memory was referenced. This cannot be protected by
try-
except,
it must be protected by a Probe. Typically the address is just plain
bad or it
is pointing at freed memory.
Arguments:
Arg1: e1a7e304, memory referenced.
Arg2: 00000000, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation.
Arg3: bf89412b, If non-zero, the instruction address which referenced
the bad memory
address.
Arg4: 00000001, (reserved)

Debugging Details:
------------------

Could not read faulting driver name

READ_ADDRESS: e1a7e304

FAULTING_IP:
win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+b1
bf89412b 8b0e mov ecx,dword ptr [esi]

MM_INTERNAL_CODE: 1

CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: DRIVER_FAULT

BUGCHECK_STR: 0x50

PROCESS_NAME: BF2.exe

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from bf008af2 to bf89412b

STACK_TEXT:
ab51c3b0 bf008af2 e5ce1080 e8f16a24 ab51c3ec win32k!
WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+0xb1
ab51c3f8 bf009033 00000001 e79bf798 ab51c480 dxg!vDdEnableDriver+0x8a
ab51c414 bf876ded e8f162d8 00000001 e13dc2d8 dxg!DxDdEnableDirectDraw
+0xbf
ab51c434 bf89173d ab51c5d4 e1802f68 00000000 win32k!
PDEVOBJ::bMakeSurface+0xe2
ab51c460 bf89213d e1802f68 e1a60270 e895c6f8 win32k!hCreateHDEV+0x3a9
ab51c5d8 bf898a80 ab51c6a0 00000000 00000001 win32k!DrvCreateMDEV
+0x4dc
ab51c6cc bf89ace5 ab51c6a0 e3fb0008 00000000 win32k!
DrvChangeDisplaySettings+0x251
ab51c710 bf89abd8 0012f9f4 00000000 00000000 win32k!
xxxUserChangeDisplaySettings+0x141
ab51c738 8054086c 0012f9f4 00000000 00000000 win32k!
NtUserChangeDisplaySettings+0x4a
ab51c738 7c90eb94 0012f9f4 00000000 00000000 nt!KiFastCallEntry+0xfc
WARNING: Frame IP not in any known module. Following frames may be
wrong.
0012f9fc 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x7c90eb94

STACK_COMMAND: kb

FOLLOWUP_IP:
win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+b1
bf89412b 8b0e mov ecx,dword ptr [esi]

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0

SYMBOL_NAME: win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+b1

FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner

MODULE_NAME: win32k

IMAGE_NAME: win32k.sys

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 45f013f6

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0x50_win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+b1

BUCKET_ID: 0x50_win32k!WatchdogDrvGetDirectDrawInfo+b1

Followup: MachineOwner
---------
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

> Can that still be an issue? Could the onboard sound cause a BSOD
> blaming win32k.sys and 0x050F?

If you can borrow a sound card from someone, then you wouldn't have to
spend any money, and you could test everything with the onboard audio
disabled.
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

On Feb 22, 11:31 am, ShadowTek <psistormyam....RemoveThis@cs.com> wrote:
> > Can that still be an issue? Could the onboard sound cause a BSOD
> > blaming win32k.sys and 0x050F?
>
> If you can borrow a sound card from someone, then you wouldn't have to
> spend any money, and you could test everything with the onboard audio
> disabled.

LOL true..unfortunately even I use the onboard sound on my computer at
home, and everyone here at work uses the onboard sound.
(I've always wanted to get a sound card, ever since my brother got an
Audigy 2, and MAN! Did it really make a difference--I was honestly
surprised what a difference it could make. But have never been able to
justify the cost when I have, you know food to buy and stuff. *g*)
 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s.. 

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 >> Stay informed about: would vidcard problems stop with change to new series of s..