wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work).

Another test

I have two machines.

1st Machine :
NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1)

2nd Machine :
NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2)

I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine.
I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine.

So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm not
sure...
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

test <test.TakeThisOut@test.com> wrote:
| Another test
|
| I have two machines.
|
| 1st Machine :
| NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1)
|
| 2nd Machine :
| NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2)
|
| I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine.
| I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine.
|
| So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm
| not sure...

Nope, not exactly.

For an NIC to do wake-on-LAN it has on-board hardware support to:
a) Recognise a 'magic packet' - its MAC address repeated so many times,
and;
b) Activate the WOL signal via the flying lead which plugs between it and
a m/board connactor.
Nothing gets 'stored' in the NIC from boot to boot,or by the BIOS, it is a
hardware function triggered by the content of the hardware buffer.

For an m/board to do wake-on-LAN, it must:
a) Provide the +5v 'standby' current to the NIC - part of the ATX spec;
b) Have the WOL connector on-board and the associated logic to suppot
it - also ATX;
c) Have 'WOL enable' set in the BIOS;

From my experience with Gigabyte m/boards - and a whole bunch of tests
done recently - if all of the above are 'present and correct' then sending
the rght magic packet to powered-nut-mot-booted machine will result in it
performing the same function as it the power button has been pressed:
a) From the 'standby' or 'hibernate' or 'suspend-to-RAM' states, it will
'resume';
b) From a powered-down state it will perform a full boot-up.

What happens if the machine completely loses power, so the +5v standby
current is interrupted, is a whole different issue.

Kevin.
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

test wrote:

 > Another test
 >
 > I have two machines.
 >
 > 1st Machine :
 > NIC - WakeOnLAN ON (1)
 >
 > 2nd Machine :
 > NIC - WakeOnLAN OFF (2)
 >
 > I put the NIC (1) in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this machine.
 > I put the NIC (2) in the 1st Machine : I can't wake up this machine.
 >
 > So, I conclude that the parameter is only saved in the NIC. But I'm not
 > sure...
 >
 >

how did you set 'NIC - WakeOnLan " On and Off? What make/model
is the NIC?

Thanks.

b<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

I set the WakeOnLAN on/off from Windows.

3Com 3C905C-TX
Intel Pro/1000 MT Network Connection
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

"I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up this
machine."

But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in Windows...

I don't understand

Too many questions
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

test <test.TakeThisOut@test.com> wrote:
| "I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up
| this machine."
|
| But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in
| Windows...
|
| I don't understand
|
| Too many questions

Okay - one step at a time.
The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - it
powers the machine back on.
WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it should
work - given the correct hardware.
Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of Windoze you
found the option to turn OFF WOL ?
Kevin.
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:43:50 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
<kepla.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> wrote:

 > test <test.RemoveThis@test.com> wrote:
 > | "I put the NIC (1) - WakeOnLAN ON in the 2nd Machine : I can wake up
 > | this machine."
 > |
 > | But why can i wake up this machine ? It was WakeOnLAN OFF only in
 > | Windows...
 > |
 > | I don't understand
 > |
 > | Too many questions
 >
 > Okay - one step at a time.
 > The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - it
 >powers the machine back on.
 > WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it should
 >work - given the correct hardware.
 > Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of Windoze you
 >found the option to turn OFF WOL ?
 > Kevin.

The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the
whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between
different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed
yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the
WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver,
often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device
Manager props for the NIC. As an example:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif" target="_blank">http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif</a>

My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is
implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by
PCI bus feature.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

in Windows 98/2000/XP

I test everything :
You must enable WakeOnLAN in the OS and the BIOS.
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote:
|| Okay - one step at a time.
|| The WOL function occurs before Windoze has even started to load - it
|| powers the machine back on.
|| WOL is enabled/disablled in the BIOS. If it is enabled, then it
|| should work - given the correct hardware.
|| Would be interested in knowing whereabouts in which version of
|| Windoze you found the option to turn OFF WOL ?
|| Kevin.
|
| The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the
| whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between
| different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed
| yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the
| WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver,
| often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device
| Manager props for the NIC. As an example:
|
| http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif
|
| My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is
| implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by
| PCI bus feature.

The above is a feature of the Linksys driver. Other drivers, for example
3com or RealTek, will alow you to set whether the NIC can bring the machine
out of standby mode via the 'Power Management' tab.
The reason why the above can be made a driver feature is that in standby
mode (also sometimes called 'susped to RAM') Windows is still loaded. Some
m/boards will have a small LED to indicate that the RAM is still powered
during standby. This helps to warn users not to remove or replace RAM strips
during this time.
Should system power be completely remove at this time then the contents of
RAM, and thus the 'standby' status will be lost.
The 'Magic Packet' --> Wake On Lan feature will just cause the machine to
power up appropriate to the way it was shut down. Just the same as pressing
the front panel power button. Power down into standby - and it comes out of
standby, Power down to 'hibernate' (AKA: 'suspend to disk') - and it comes
out of hibernation, power down fully - and it boots up.
Make any hardware changes between power-down and WOL and the results will
be less predictable.
AFAIK there is no detail in the PCI specification to provide for the WOL
signal - hence the seperate flying lead. What IS provided for via the PCI
bus is the +5v 'standby' current - and that is part of the ATX
specification.
The driver for the NIC will probably show the above feature regardless of
whether is has actually been implemented on the card or not.
Hope we've just about got the explanation nailed down now.
Kevin.
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:23:13 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
<kepla.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote:


 > | The WOL function does indeed occur before Windows loads, which is the
 > | whole issue of the thread, that "something" is discriminating between
 > | different settings, not the BIOS, as that m'board BIOS isn't executed
 > | yet. It's not a certain version of Windows that allows changing the
 > | WOL feature, it's all(?) versions, an option given by the NIC driver,
 > | often accessible in the networking properties or perhaps Device
 > | Manager props for the NIC. As an example:
 > |
<font color=purple> > | <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif</font" target="_blank">http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/nic_wake.gif</font</a>>
 > |
 > | My memory of it is a bit vague, but I believe this feature is
 > | implemented even if the NIC doesn't have a WOL header on it, then by
 > | PCI bus feature.
 >
 > The above is a feature of the Linksys driver. Other drivers, for example
 >3com or RealTek, will alow you to set whether the NIC can bring the machine
 >out of standby mode via the 'Power Management' tab.
 > The reason why the above can be made a driver feature is that in standby
 >mode (also sometimes called 'susped to RAM') Windows is still loaded.

No, that driver feature is NOT just a driver feature, it actually
controls how the "NIC" responds when the machine is OFF. I have used
that very same NIC (or another EXACTLY like it) to power on an old ATX
and it depends on which setting you choose. Again, this is why this
thread exists, because it is not as simple as you imply.


 >Some
 >m/boards will have a small LED to indicate that the RAM is still powered
 >during standby. This helps to warn users not to remove or replace RAM strips
 >during this time.
 > Should system power be completely remove at this time then the contents of
 >RAM, and thus the 'standby' status will be lost.

We are not talking about a sleep mode. We're not talking about
suspend to RAM, we're talking about OFF, ATX soft-off, with AC still
going to the power supply.

 > The 'Magic Packet' --> Wake On Lan feature will just cause the machine to
 >power up appropriate to the way it was shut down. Just the same as pressing
 >the front panel power button. Power down into standby - and it comes out of
 >standby, Power down to 'hibernate' (AKA: 'suspend to disk') - and it comes
 >out of hibernation, power down fully - and it boots up.
 > Make any hardware changes between power-down and WOL and the results will
 >be less predictable.
 > AFAIK there is no detail in the PCI specification to provide for the WOL
 >signal - hence the seperate flying lead. What IS provided for via the PCI
 >bus is the +5v 'standby' current - and that is part of the ATX
 >specification.

There needs be no specific PCI spec for WOL, because it (PCI) is more
versatile than that... not only the NIC, but any PCI device can do it,
if that device is designed to, and appropriate BIOS settings, set.

 > The driver for the NIC will probably show the above feature regardless of
 >whether is has actually been implemented on the card or not.
 > Hope we've just about got the explanation nailed down now.
 > Kevin.

Just about all NICs these days support it, I'd expect it's more common
for a card that can do it, to have a driver with that functionality
omitted.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:45:24 GMT, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote:


 >No, that driver feature is NOT just a driver feature, it actually
 >controls how the "NIC" responds when the machine is OFF. I have used
 >that very same NIC (or another EXACTLY like it) to power on an old ATX
 >and it depends on which setting you choose. Again, this is why this
 >thread exists, because it is not as simple as you imply.

Upon double-checking this, it appears that I'm either partially wrong,
or that it depends on the specific motherboard, or both. I just tried
an Asus A7S333 with Award BIOS (the system that the Linksys NIC from
my previously linked image, is installed in), and it will power-up the
system independant of the driver setting, but doesn't need the WOL
cable, only the setting in the BIOS for "Power Up On PCI Card" to be
enabled.

I still feel my memory is correct about that card providing power-on
ONLY when the driver had the setting enabled, I even remember the
motherboard it was used in at that time, an Intel AL440LX, which did
have a WOL cable installed unlike the A7S333.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:45:24 GMT, kony <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.com> wrote:
[snipped]
 >There needs be no specific PCI spec for WOL, because it (PCI) is more
 >versatile than that...

That's true because WOL has nothing to do with the PCI bus per se. One could
implement WOL on an ISA-only system, no big deal, as the implementations
pre-PME# use sidebanding from the pluggable agent to the host system board.

 >not only the NIC, but any PCI device can do it, if that device is designed to,
[snipped again]

I'm presuming you're referring to PME# here, but that exists only on platforms
that support PCI 2.2 at the minimum, and that actually implement PME# (not the
majority of systems to this point, fwiw)...

/daytripper<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work). 

Have read this thread which has some excellent points. Would just like to clarify something related to when there has been a complete loss of AC power in particular there has been no proper shutdown and there is total power loss.

Assume a NIC with wake on lan capability connected through a wake on lan cable to a motherboard with a WOL connector. I understand that when AC power comes back on (end of the power cut) standby power is restored to the NIC card.

If the card receives a "magic packet" is it not possible for the NIC card to boot the machine as it has a direct signal connection through the cable to the ATX power switching.

This relies on the assumption that you can set a setting on the NIC card to enable Wake-on-Lan and that this setting is non-volatile (in the old days you would set a jumper pin). That is, it remains enabled even when there is no power going to the NIC card.

If this is possible then can anyone recommend a NIC card that will do this (i.e. retain settings or default to WOL).

For those interested in the wider discussion when the PC is in other power modes the Intel site has a good summary of http://support.intel.com/support/network/sb/cs-008459.htm (remote wakeup issues)

gr8w11ne
mobo Gigabyte GA-6OMM7E
 >> Stay informed about: wake-on-lan after power loss ( doesn't work).