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Frank Eggink

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Since: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:13 pm
Post subject: z80 help
Archived from groups: alt>comp>hardware>homebuilt (more info?)

Is there anyone out there interested in starting a new z80 project?

Greetings,

Frank

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Andrew Smallshaw

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Since: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 109



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:05 am
Post subject: Re: z80 help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-01-30, Frank Eggink <freggink DeleteThis @gmx.net> wrote:
> Is there anyone out there interested in starting a new z80 project?

Not many. Looking at a few groups (comp.arch.embedded in particular)
I see a few processors of choice for new projects. The usual
options are PICs (awful) and AVR (better) for the low end stuff,
MSP430 for mid-range projects and ARM for apps that are more
comparable to a full size computer than a typical hobby project.

The Z80 is old - I see that true Z80s aren't a stock item for
Digikey for instance. Modern microcontroller circuits can be much
simpler than the equivalent Z80 system with integrated RAM, EEPROM,
ADCs etc meaning that for simple stuff you often don't need any
other chips on the board. A JTAG interface allows for both
programming and very powerful debugging, e.g. with the MSP430 I am
able to run DDD and GDB on the desktop machine, debugging a program
running on the project's hardware. Finally systems based on such
systems are likely to go together faster and be cheaper than a Z80
equivalent, in part due to the lower chip count.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews DeleteThis @sdf.lonestar.org

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philo

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Since: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 687



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:45 am
Post subject: Re: z80 help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Andrew Smallshaw" <andrews RemoveThis @sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:slrnfq3if1.3b3.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org...
> On 2008-01-30, Frank Eggink <freggink RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote:
>> Is there anyone out there interested in starting a new z80 project?
>
> Not many. Looking at a few groups (comp.arch.embedded in particular)
> I see a few processors of choice for new projects. The usual
> options are PICs (awful) and AVR (better) for the low end stuff,
> MSP430 for mid-range projects and ARM for apps that are more
> comparable to a full size computer than a typical hobby project.
>
> The Z80 is old - I see that true Z80s aren't a stock item for
> Digikey for instance. Modern microcontroller circuits can be much
> simpler than the equivalent Z80 system with integrated RAM, EEPROM,
> ADCs etc meaning that for simple stuff you often don't need any
> other chips on the board. A JTAG interface allows for both
> programming and very powerful debugging, e.g. with the MSP430 I am
> able to run DDD and GDB on the desktop machine, debugging a program
> running on the project's hardware. Finally systems based on such
> systems are likely to go together faster and be cheaper than a Z80
> equivalent, in part due to the lower chip count.
>


Re:Z80

I work for a manufacturer that designed some ( fairly low tech) control
systems back in the early 80's.
The control unit design was based on the Z80. The system is still in
production so the Z80 is still being used today.

Since the design is still perfectly good...there was certainly never any
need to upgrade the CPU to anything newer...
the only thing that still gives me a laugh...is that when the "off" button
is depressed...the Z80 is so slow that it takes a few seconds for the
machine to actually shut down. <G>
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Andrew Smallshaw

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Since: Apr 03, 2005
Posts: 109



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: z80 help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 2008-02-02, philo <philo.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> I work for a manufacturer that designed some ( fairly low tech) control
> systems back in the early 80's.
> The control unit design was based on the Z80. The system is still in
> production so the Z80 is still being used today.
>
> Since the design is still perfectly good...there was certainly never any
> need to upgrade the CPU to anything newer...
> the only thing that still gives me a laugh...is that when the "off" button
> is depressed...the Z80 is so slow that it takes a few seconds for the
> machine to actually shut down. <G>

I don't dispute that it is still in use. The OP was asking about
new designs. There are better alternatives out there that are both
faster/cheaper/easier to design and program. If you already have
a working design of course it makes sense to leverage that for as
long as it is economic, but that is a different equation to starting
the design cycle now.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews.TakeThisOut@sdf.lonestar.org
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philo

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Since: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 687



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: z80 help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Andrew Smallshaw" <andrews.DeleteThis@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:slrnfq9esl.668.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org...
> On 2008-02-02, philo <philo.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> > I work for a manufacturer that designed some ( fairly low tech) control
> > systems back in the early 80's.
> > The control unit design was based on the Z80. The system is still in
> > production so the Z80 is still being used today.
> >
> > Since the design is still perfectly good...there was certainly never any
> > need to upgrade the CPU to anything newer...
> > the only thing that still gives me a laugh...is that when the "off"
button
> > is depressed...the Z80 is so slow that it takes a few seconds for the
> > machine to actually shut down. <G>
>
> I don't dispute that it is still in use. The OP was asking about
> new designs. There are better alternatives out there that are both
> faster/cheaper/easier to design and program. If you already have
> a working design of course it makes sense to leverage that for as
> long as it is economic, but that is a different equation to starting
> the design cycle now.
>


Yes...
I would never bother using a Z80 in a new design...
unless it was simply for nostalgic purposes.

I actually have met someone who designs and builds vacuum tube equipment...
so there is plenty to be said for nostalgic value !
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